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Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

johnsalvatier.org

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Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#221

Something I've noticed now that we're all communicating online in written form: a lack of people saying "I don't know" It seems that everybody knows everything. Whatever the issue, a little bit of Googling and suddenly you know all there is to know. Even more wondrous, no matter what position you take on anything, some more search engine Kung Fu and you can find a hundred people willing to support you with arguments,…

There's a language that has citations built into statements of fact or belief; you modify statements based on how you came to know them. If someone asks, "Where is Alice?", your answer of "Alice is fishing" would be phrased differently depending on whether he told you he was going fishing, or whether Bob told you he saw her fishing, or whether you saw her fishing. There's nothing like that online, so any given advice…

Are you thinking of Ithkuil?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to assemble all of my office furniture if my company paid for it -- though paying $100+/hour engineers to do the work of a $15+ handyman seems like a bad deal for the company - especially when the guy that assembles desks all day will do it faster (and correctly).

Consider it a team-building exercise? Companies waste employee time in all sorts of other ways, so why not building desks?

We did exactly this where I'm an expensive consultant. The one who assembled his table the fastest won a prize. My workplace might be a little different but we also are responsible for moving the dishes in and out of the dishwasher. I'm happy to do it.

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#223
post #53

>Do you remember the insights that were crucial in learning to ride a bike or drive? The author mentioned bicycles and inadvertently missed an opportunity to show another "unknown reality" that beautifully illustrates his point. Consider typical adults (not physicists) with 20+ years of bicycle riding. If you ask them, "how does a bicycle turn?" , they'd respond that "you just lean into the direction of the turn and…

There's another neat example of this: asking someone with years of car-driving experience to hold their hands out as if gripping a steering wheel and mime the motions necessary to change lanes. [1] The steps are:

1. Turn the steering wheel towards the lane you wish to enter,

2. Re-center the steering wheel,

3. Counter-steer the same amount as in step 1.

Step 3 is what people tend to forget about.

[1] https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/episode-37-the-steeri...

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#224
Brilliant AF.

One of the hardest things to do is make difficult processes and systems accessible. This article achieves that with a simple discussion of building a staircase (no mean feat, first time) to step up to the springboard for a much larger idea. It's almost as if observing the staircase details renders a scaleable model fractal that gets to measurement of a learning curve.

I wonder if, by observing the details of one's own most difficult task, focusing on the time to learn each detail and assemble one's own model, an overall speed for learning ANY difficult task, done by a particular person could be calculated. That could be a valuable tool for measuring human potential, particularly in apprentice-type learning.

The value of the time and the effort put into the apprenticeship -- to both the apprentice and the master craftsman -- could be assessed before hand. Achievement baselines could be set closer to reality; or it could be decided that the apprenticeship would not be worth the time and effort. But that last decision could be made on firmer ground, data-wise.

Da Vinci, I would suggest, was a great observer of detail; he was also pretty good at math, science, engineering, and architecture. But it all started with drawing -- observing the most minute of detail, in all it's imperfection, then transferring that to paper. As an artist, he also learned to sort of standardize many of the imperfections -- or at least the use of the tool to represent those imperfections on paper or canvas. The painting method he galvanized, sfumato, eschewed hard lines in nature, and worked hard to achieve the soft edge. I wonder if da Vinci saw the irrationality of pi as evidence that a circle has no true "edge," but that a circle was instead equidistant points stretching out in a small infinity, particular to a specif object

The downside of observation might be wrapped up in this last, though. Because the casual observer of a circle, presuming that there is a definite, finite edge to a circle could lose their faith in the dimensional space we've grown up perceiving (four dimensions.) This might be okay for a mathematician, a scientist, or an artist. To a suburban husband with a mortgage and a minivan, it might be terrifying. The observation might completely unmoor him, and send him drifting off.

Nature is like that. The infinite diversity of nature, at say, the class, order, genus, species, or individual level can be maddening to try to take in. Looking above, at "animal, mineral, vegetable" compounds that exponentially. How those pieces work together to build a staircase, or a giraffe, or a seam of granite, or the savanna of Africa, is the heart of scientific -- and artistic -- inquiry.

Thanks, John Salvatier, for a provocative and insightful article.

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#225

Something I've noticed now that we're all communicating online in written form: a lack of people saying "I don't know" It seems that everybody knows everything. Whatever the issue, a little bit of Googling and suddenly you know all there is to know. Even more wondrous, no matter what position you take on anything, some more search engine Kung Fu and you can find a hundred people willing to support you with arguments,…

Why would I jump into a thread, on any site, just to say I don't know? There are thousands of threads just on HN that I just let scroll by without participating because I don't know enough to add to the discussion. Explicitly calling out my lack of knowledge on every thread would serve no purpose to anybody. Online written communications will never follow the same patterns as direct communication, and that is a good…

Well, I too jump into threads where I think I know some part of what's being discussed.

But I'll often bookend a comment like that with points about what I don't know. And here, there are points I think someone might know - frame those as questions. But also there are point I doubt either myself or the person I'm replying to knows, frame those as problems of knowledge, statistics and so-forth.

Obviously, I think I know a general framework, that our beliefs are areas of semi-certainty bordered by heuristics, myth, ignorance and lack of awareness. But this is a belief that will often about what I or we, don't know.

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#226
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on dekhn, we want to know

OK, sure. One of the most interesting long-running issues in proteins is how they adopt their 3D structure and remain stable for such long periods. Most people would say that covalent bonds hold the protein together and they dominate the overall structure- for example, you wouldn't ever see a strained covalent bond, so you can easily eliminate all structures with strained bonds. This was long an assumption. However,…

Thanks!

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#227
I am reminded of three texts: "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore[1], Tektronix's "Low Level Measurement Handbook"[2] and LTC Application Note 47 "High Speed Amplifier Techniques"[3]. All three deal with systems at the limits of precision, whether mechanical, electrical, or temporal.

Say you want to measure a length. Easy right? Just take a measuring tape or ruler and put it next to the thing to be measured. But what if you need really high accuracy over a reasonably long distance. Say, to within a tenth of a millimeter (100 μ) over a meter long distance or more. Now temperature matters: your scale will expand differently than the object being measured if they aren't the same material. Humidity has similar effects. Traditional length standards were metal bars, but metal bars sag under their own weight, changing the distance between the ends. Modern standards use interferometers to create a length standard, but those require very good mirrors and monochromatic light sources for proper operation. That's without getting into electronic measurement systems for the interferometers, and the required sensitivity there...

And you still need a way to transfer the accuracy from the interferometer to a practical measuring scale. That brings back concerns of temperature. Human handlers transfer heat, leading to local expansion. Light is absorbed differently by objects of different color, leading to different expansion. Etc.

The further you try to push the accuracy and precision the more details start to matter, and the more disciplines start to get involved.

[1] http://mooretool.com/publications.html (it can be found on Gen Lib, but is worth the price)

[2] https://www.tek.com/document/handbook/low-level-measurements...

[3] https://cds.linear.com/docs/en/application-note/an47fa.pdf

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#228

Something I've noticed now that we're all communicating online in written form: a lack of people saying "I don't know" It seems that everybody knows everything. Whatever the issue, a little bit of Googling and suddenly you know all there is to know. Even more wondrous, no matter what position you take on anything, some more search engine Kung Fu and you can find a hundred people willing to support you with arguments,…

In one on one or small group conversations, I say I don't know all the time.

In one to many conversations like a thread on Hacker News, why would I say "I don't know" unless I'm specifically addressed or have a side point to make? It's noise, and doesn't help anyone.

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#229

Something I've noticed now that we're all communicating online in written form: a lack of people saying "I don't know" It seems that everybody knows everything. Whatever the issue, a little bit of Googling and suddenly you know all there is to know. Even more wondrous, no matter what position you take on anything, some more search engine Kung Fu and you can find a hundred people willing to support you with arguments,…

I don't know if the inverse correlation exists, but I doubt the explanation provided (that smart people often do not know or won't admit what they don't know).

Coming from academic circles, we consider such people as the "mildly" smart. As in, being uninformed is OK (you know you are uninformed). Being only a little informed is dangerous (you don't know what you don't know). And the most informed are OK too (they know quite well the limits of their knowledge). The smart people you are talking about do not usually survive academia.

In my own personal experience, I find the false confidence to be quite orthogonal to intelligence. I see plenty of low intelligence folks have the same problem, and plenty of high intelligence folks have it, and do not see a clear relation where one is more prone to it than the other. More like: You are humble and always doubt yourself (which is the academic's concept of "smart" - continually trying to tear down your own theories), or you are arrogant and do not. Intelligence is unrelated.

Re: Reality has a surprising amount of detail (2017)

#230

I am reminded of three texts: "Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy" by Wayne R. Moore[1], Tektronix's "Low Level Measurement Handbook"[2] and LTC Application Note 47 "High Speed Amplifier Techniques"[3]. All three deal with systems at the limits of precision, whether mechanical, electrical, or temporal. Say you want to measure a length. Easy right? Just take a measuring tape or ruler and put it next to the thing to be…

Reminds me of the difficulty of measuring the heights of mountains like Everest.
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