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What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

chronicle.com

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Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#31

Post by wavefunction »

tomsthumb wrote: post #8

It’s worth pointing out that Peterson is actually not against using a variety of gender pronouns per se. So many people get this wrong. He is against being compelled to use a variety of gender pronouns by legislation which is internally inconsistent, scientifically inaccurate, and additionally lacks clarity by punting process and standards to the Ontario human rights commission which can change their process and defi…

I try to treat people with respect and in the manner they would like to be treated (within reason) but I also reserve my right to be offensive to other people, to be rude and crude and aggressive because some times that's appropriate.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#32

Post by Chaebixi »

indubitable wrote: post #2

Surprisingly well written and balanced article in today's world of demonizing those we disagree with and deifying those we agree with. Something increasingly lost in the noise is that in the end we're all just people -- something that this article emphasizes.

I found it on http://www.aldaily.com. They find some very good stuff.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#33

Post by DanAndersen »

superquest wrote: post #4

Below is a very good related article about the "intellectual dark web" consisting of academics like Peterson who are being driven out of the academy by orthodoxy and instead work through podcasts, Youtube, Patreon, etc http://conatusnews.com/rise-intellectual-dark-web/ edit: I made a thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16189120

I think there's something really interesting happening with philosophy and its use of the Internet as a platform. It's a disruption in the same way that traditional media is being disrupted.

YouTube debates held by self-made moderators are a sort of spectator sport where differing schools of thought are battling it out rhetorically. The audiences are people who are honed by online debate groups and have experience in one-liner Tweets and trolling to prove a point.

When you think about it, it's not all that new of a concept -- the classical philosophers had their "schools" but they weren't like formal institutions with faculty. Philosophers had their followers or acolytes, not matriculated registered students. Maybe the more calcified academic structures we see starting to break down are the aberration rather than the norm.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#34

Post by majormajor »

savanaly wrote: post #27
tomsthumb wrote: post #8

It’s worth pointing out that Peterson is actually not against using a variety of gender pronouns per se. So many people get this wrong. He is against being compelled to use a variety of gender pronouns by legislation which is internally inconsistent, scientifically inaccurate, and additionally lacks clarity by punting process and standards to the Ontario human rights commission which can change their process and defi…

In everyday life I've never found it to be too inconvenient to be as accommodating as possible to others and communicate with them on their own terms, whether that means remembering to use the pronouns they want or using alternative terminology if they think some word is offensive. I've never had to think about how my outlook might change if all of that got a lot more inconvenient though (if more people start requiri…

It's easy in one-on-one conversations with people you know or have a reasonable way of learning about.

It's hard for public or mass communications with people who have rapidly-evolving preferences and sets of things that can cause offense.

Peterson sounds like a dick in his methods, but there's a dangerous regressive trend picking up in mainstream circles of treating disagreement as heresy. We've picked up the worst habits of religion. (And the "right" is too intellectually dishonest to notice that this treend of whining/heresy/safe-spaces-desire trend is deeply entrenched in evangelical and right-wing America, with private schools, "wars on Christmas", etc.)

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#35

Post by stcredzero »

savanaly wrote: post #27
tomsthumb wrote: post #8

It’s worth pointing out that Peterson is actually not against using a variety of gender pronouns per se. So many people get this wrong. He is against being compelled to use a variety of gender pronouns by legislation which is internally inconsistent, scientifically inaccurate, and additionally lacks clarity by punting process and standards to the Ontario human rights commission which can change their process and defi…

In everyday life I've never found it to be too inconvenient to be as accommodating as possible to others and communicate with them on their own terms, whether that means remembering to use the pronouns they want or using alternative terminology if they think some word is offensive. I've never had to think about how my outlook might change if all of that got a lot more inconvenient though (if more people start requiri…

Much less have I thought about what if I were compelled by force/law to do the thing I've been doing voluntarily all along.

Have you never made a mistake in common courtesy? What if any mistake in common courtesy meant that you could be hauled before a kangaroo court which can use a scientifically dubious "test of unconscious bias" against you as evidence? What if that kangaroo court could get you kicked out of your job? Go and read the law Jordan Peterson is complaining about.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#36

Post by hashberry »

Jordan Peterson became famous after a student tried to debate him about his "Nazi followers" and gender pronouns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP3mSamRbYA

Many people see him as an enemy because of his conservative viewpoints. His most recent debate with Cathy Newman from three days ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#37

Post by jsnk »

The article really tries hard to paint Jordan Peterson (JP) as a controversial figure who espouses fringe messages. The article uses adjectives like "controversial" and "polarizing" to describe JP. His public presence is "notoriety". His followers are said to be "something akin to a cult following". He "appears on TV, including on Fox & Friends, President Trump’s preferred morning show". WoW so edgy.

But is JP really the one who is controversial and polarizing?

- JP is against the Pomo stuff that passes for scholarship now a days. https://twitter.com/realpeerreview?lang=en

- We have professors university calling for violence against his political opponents. http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/14/criminal-justice-professor...

- We had a Antifa professor who nearly killed a guy hitting someone with a heavy bike lock. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg (WARNING: GRAPHIC)

Is JP really the one who is polarizing and extreme here? The left academic really dropped the ball not pointing out their own dirty laundry and cleaning out their own cesspool of fake academics and violent thugs.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#39

Post by masmullin »

FussyZeus wrote: post #29
tomsthumb wrote: post #8

It’s worth pointing out that Peterson is actually not against using a variety of gender pronouns per se. So many people get this wrong. He is against being compelled to use a variety of gender pronouns by legislation which is internally inconsistent, scientifically inaccurate, and additionally lacks clarity by punting process and standards to the Ontario human rights commission which can change their process and defi…

Exactly. I have no problem calling a genetic male "she" that's what she prefers. I take issue with being held to a standard of somehow needing to "know" that ahead of time, and respect it, with no effort on the part of the woman in question. I'm perfectly able to be understanding in these cases, but I'm not capable to be psychic.

I've only met one transgender person. She was basically a dude wearing lipstick and high heeled boots. She was really nice, and I wanted to use her preferred pronouns, but it's really difficult to do so.

> I take issue with being held to a standard of somehow needing to "know" that ahead of time, and respect it, with no effort on the part of the woman in question.

I'd like to postulate that it's not just ahead of time. It's really hard to change your usage of he to she or him to her, when you are visually presented with a man. The brain doesn't easily change, so don't get mad when it doesn't change as fast as you want.

Re: What’s So Dangerous About Jordan Peterson?

#40

Post by rosser »

stcredzero wrote: post #28
tomsthumb wrote: post #8

It’s worth pointing out that Peterson is actually not against using a variety of gender pronouns per se. So many people get this wrong. He is against being compelled to use a variety of gender pronouns by legislation which is internally inconsistent, scientifically inaccurate, and additionally lacks clarity by punting process and standards to the Ontario human rights commission which can change their process and defi…

Not to mention scientifically dubious tests of "unconscious bias" used against you as evidence in kangaroo courts -- enshrined into law. That's something that might be in Room 101 in the world of Orwell's1984. Also, enshrining into law of scientifically false statements. (Anyone remember the bit about Indiana doing that with pi == 3?)

The pi thing never actually happened. The bill was proposed but did not pass.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

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