The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram • Hacker News Board

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#31

Post by dsl » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 5:59 PM UTC

55555 wrote: post #25

mrguyorama wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like you've never experienced poverty

Do a lot of people in poverty have $150 in venmo? They know it is zero sum and they are investing with the expectation of profit, yet the only way they can profit is if someone else loses, so how much empathy should we exercise here? An amount equal to the amount they exercised sounds fair to me. Had they lost money in a _deceptive_ ponzi I would have pity.

Yes, according to the FDIC 9% of US households have no relationship with a bank. An additional 19.9% are "underbanked" in that they have a checking or savings account, but rely heavily on non-banks for financial services (pay day loan lines of credit, paypal/venmo accounts, primary cash users, etc).

This is _households_. The number of teen to twenties in these categories is probably much higher.

I know kids who have all their money (hundreds of dollars) in venmo and transfer money to friends to get cash.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#32

Post by colanderman » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

55555 wrote: post #24

mrguyorama wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that pyramid schemes need to be stopped ASAP to limit the damage they do.

There isnt much damage. No money is lost, it just moves. Admittedly into fewer hands. The damage is mostly capped at $150 or so, I would imagine. Normally in a ponzi there is a pretense of a business that you are funding and so you can really empathize with those who were fooled, but no one is being fooled here. They know the risks. This is a ponzi game, not a ponzi. It's social gambling.

> No money is lost, it just moves. Admittedly into fewer hands. The damage is mostly capped at $150 or so, I would imagine.

I mean, that describes literal robbery too.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#33

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

55555 wrote: post #25

mrguyorama wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds to me like you've never experienced poverty

Do a lot of people in poverty have $150 in venmo? They know it is zero sum and they are investing with the expectation of profit, yet the only way they can profit is if someone else loses, so how much empathy should we exercise here? An amount equal to the amount they exercised sounds fair to me. Had they lost money in a _deceptive_ ponzi I would have pity.

Why do you assume everyone involved in a pyramid scheme understands the math and concepts of pyramid schemes?

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#34

Post by paulgb » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:07 PM UTC

JamesLeonis wrote: post #30

There are a lot of judgment posts in the comments here. Let me ask a few questions of the HN crowd: * When were these kids educated about pyramid schemes and other scams? When were they taught the patterns to look for? * Who is responsible for teaching them? Most of you will say "Parents", but are they equipped to understand and teach? The old cliche is Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it but who is…

Maybe games like this are the education. Part of me wants to see Instagram/venmo allow these to continue to happen because it's better for these kids to lose $150 now than $10,000 later.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#35

Post by matte_black » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:08 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #16

matte_black wrote: post #15

IMO this is a good opportunity for them to learn how a scam works before they go out in the real world with real money and really get taken for a ride. Everyone falls for a scam at some point in their life, better to learn early with minimal loss of money.

$150 is real money.

It represents what, two days of work at minimum wage? Sounds like a cheap price to pay for falling for a scam. You could lose a lot more in this world. A lot more.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#36

Post by crapitalism9 » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:11 PM UTC

colanderman wrote: post #32

55555 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isnt much damage. No money is lost, it just moves. Admittedly into fewer hands. The damage is mostly capped at $150 or so, I would imagine. Normally in a ponzi there is a pretense of a business that you are funding and so you can really empathize with those who were fooled, but no one is being fooled here. They know the risks. This is a ponzi game, not a ponzi. It's social gambling.

> No money is lost, it just moves. Admittedly into fewer hands. The damage is mostly capped at $150 or so, I would imagine. I mean, that describes literal robbery too.

>> No money is lost, it just moves. Admittedly into fewer hands.

> I mean, that describes literal robbery too.

I mean, that describes capitalism pretty well too.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#37

Post by crapitalism9 » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:12 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #35

ISL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$150 is real money.

It represents what, two days of work at minimum wage? Sounds like a cheap price to pay for falling for a scam. You could lose a lot more in this world. A lot more.

Do... do you live in the US? Because federal minimum wage is $7.25, and 16 hours at that rate is $116... before taxes. And don’t forget that if you’re working for minimum wage, $150 is a LOT of money. If you make minimum wage, you make $15,080 annually gross. $150 is 1% is your annual salary. Hardly paltry.

God, Silicon Valley is hilariously out of touch.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#38

Post by QuarterReptile » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:13 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #9

koolba wrote: post #7

Anyone stupid enough to do this is getting off very cheap. If anything this will save them money in the long term as hopefully they'll only be swindled for the original $150.

$150 is probably not that cheap for a teenager; and I bet that a lot of them will re-"invest" into multiple stacks once they succeed once.

I think you're missing parent's bigger point. Nothing is big for almost any teenagers, because at the end of the day they don't have to pay rent or buy groceries or that type of thing. Plus, a good percentage of them are about to be saddled with 100-1000X that amount in debt. $150 is water under the bridge.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#39

Post by paulgb » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:15 PM UTC

pembrook wrote: post #26

lawlessone wrote: post #23

Meanwhile Gen Y are playing with cryptocoins. Gen X are sitting on stock. And everyone older is collecting a pension.

Owning stock in public corporations that generate immense value, profit, employment, etc. and hold vast income producing assets on which their valuation is based is not even slightly similar to a Ponzi, pyramid, or crypto scheme.

I 100% agree that they are different, but I think it's also worth pointing out that value-producing assets can still bubble away from a realistic valuation.

Re: The Gen Z Pyramid Scheme Sweeping Instagram

#40

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 6:16 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #35

ISL wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$150 is real money.

It represents what, two days of work at minimum wage? Sounds like a cheap price to pay for falling for a scam. You could lose a lot more in this world. A lot more.

Actually, factoring in payroll taxes, it’s closer to 4 8-hour shifts on minimum wage. A more expensive price to pay for falling for a scam, but a very cheap lesson in the long run.