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Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

cnbc.com

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Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#11

Post by islanderfun »

I agree some parts of our society have basically forbidden any kind of discussion. That is in need of real change. Respectable and honest discussions between adults should be allowed.

Sucks that conference speakers are being "checked" for political affiliations. Why not let the topic stand on its own?

But of course, everyone is free to not listen to people that don't support them in some way. It's a delicate line.

> "grumbling about the need for a space for musical jam sessions."

What? I have to believe that isn't common and it's being used as a "see how lazy/unprofessional/undedicated _everyone_ in SV is"

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#12

Post by charlesdm »

mindcrime wrote: post #2

"Engineers have slightly different habits: they will appear about 10am and leave at midnight." I actually agree with Moritz on some points, but this... all I can say is, from an employee perspective, this only makes sense IF you're going to get rich as a result. And the average startup employee does not get enough equity to get rich even in the event of a successful exit, so there's no reason to do this kind of stuff…

Working more is almost never the solution. If you have to work from 8am until 10pm, you're just doing something wrong.

Does he himself work from 8am until 10pm?

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#13

Post by firasd »

I've seen a lot of anger about his comments on Twitter, but for me this just boils down to a structural issue: for him, a company is an item in a financial portfolio. For an employee, a job at a company means years of their life. Their incentives are not aligned (unless the worker is voluntarily putting in continuous 12-hr days for adequate compensation.)

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#14

Post by strebler »

mikeash wrote: post #4

So basically, to us American techies, shut up and start working 100 hour weeks? What a delightful fellow. I wonder if he’s going to lead by example, or if he thinks 14-hour days are only for underlings.

Exactly, do it or else he's going to take his ball and go home (or take his fund's money and go to China)

But don't tell him what happens if he ever tries to take his money OUT of China, we can let that be a "fun" learning experience for him.

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#15

Post by whack »

mindcrime wrote: post #2

"Engineers have slightly different habits: they will appear about 10am and leave at midnight." I actually agree with Moritz on some points, but this... all I can say is, from an employee perspective, this only makes sense IF you're going to get rich as a result. And the average startup employee does not get enough equity to get rich even in the event of a successful exit, so there's no reason to do this kind of stuff…

> Seriously though, unless you're being paid MEGA-BUCKS or have MASSIVE equity there is just no reason to work yourself to death.

The flip side to this: we may soon have to do just that, merely to maintain our status-quo.

SV engineers are getting paid 2-5x what engineers in China are making. Over the long-term, this is an unnatural state of affairs, and can only be maintained by continually extending our competitive edge. If engineers in China are catching up on talent, earning a fraction of our wages, and working twice the number of hours, it's only a matter of time before we see a regression-to-the-mean.

An an employee myself, I don't begrudge any of my colleagues wanting to minimize their work-hours and maximize their quality-of-life. But then again, I can hardly begrudge an employer/investor deciding to partner with someone who's willing to sacrifice quality-of-life and go the extra mile for her job.

If you're lucky enough to be in a position where you can maximize quality-of-life, while still pulling in the big bucks, milk it for all it's worth. But don't expect it to last forever.

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#16

Post by dkhenry »

I don't know if the headline is specifically that California and Silicon Valley is a worse climate then China, but this has been known for anyone outside the valley for a long time. The business climate in flyover country is worlds better. The only real problem is that its hard to get enough talent to really put your money to work, which is the same problem you will have anywhere outside the major tech hubs.

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#18

Post by golergka »

sidlls wrote: post #6
jbob2000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really depends. I worked at a company a few years ago and we stayed late because we were just a bunch of lonely dudes living in a big city with nothing better to do. If we went home at 5, we'd just be sitting alone playing video games.

That doesn't mean you weren't being exploited.

Your own decisions cannot be exploitation by someone else.

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#19

Post by mindcrime »

whack wrote: post #15
mindcrime wrote: post #2

"Engineers have slightly different habits: they will appear about 10am and leave at midnight." I actually agree with Moritz on some points, but this... all I can say is, from an employee perspective, this only makes sense IF you're going to get rich as a result. And the average startup employee does not get enough equity to get rich even in the event of a successful exit, so there's no reason to do this kind of stuff…

> Seriously though, unless you're being paid MEGA-BUCKS or have MASSIVE equity there is just no reason to work yourself to death. The flip side to this: we may soon have to do just that, merely to maintain our status-quo. SV engineers are getting paid 2-5x what engineers in China are making. Over the long-term, this is an unnatural state of affairs, and can only be maintained by continually extending our competitive…

There's something to that, for sure. But OTOH, people said the same thing about Indian developers for some time now, and it seems that the net effect has been more about Indian developers earning more, than American developers earning less. Although wage growth for American engineers might have been blunted by offshoring... hard to say.

Still, you're right to say that

If engineers in China are catching up on talent, earning a fraction of our wages, and working twice the number of hours, it's only a matter of time before we see a regression-to-the-mean.

however the details work out.

Re: Mike Moritz slams politically correct tech culture, praises Chinese work ethic

#20

Post by pavlov »

dkhenry wrote: post #16

I don't know if the headline is specifically that California and Silicon Valley is a worse climate then China, but this has been known for anyone outside the valley for a long time. The business climate in flyover country is worlds better. The only real problem is that its hard to get enough talent to really put your money to work, which is the same problem you will have anywhere outside the major tech hubs.

What do you mean by "business climate" here? I would assume that finding and retaining employees is a core component of any business, and if that's not happening, then the climate isn't all that good.
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