Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 267 posts

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#11

Post by noer »

qnk wrote: post #5

"drivers would not have to pay if they entered Manhattan by all but two of the city-owned East River bridges, which are now free to cross, as long as they bypassed the congestion zone." I don't think I understand this part. Why would you have to pay if you "bypass the congestion zone"? no matter where you're coming from. Now, if what this means is that you don't have to pay the $11.52 fee after having already paid th…

I think one example would be that if you drive over the Brooklyn Bridge or Queensborough Bridge, but get directly onto the FDR, drive north to wherever the congestion zone ends (the last time they floated the idea it was 86th St), exit onto city streets and drive south from there. The Williamsburg & Manhattan bridges have no direct connection to the FDR.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#12

Post by ghaff »

qnk wrote: post #5

"drivers would not have to pay if they entered Manhattan by all but two of the city-owned East River bridges, which are now free to cross, as long as they bypassed the congestion zone." I don't think I understand this part. Why would you have to pay if you "bypass the congestion zone"? no matter where you're coming from. Now, if what this means is that you don't have to pay the $11.52 fee after having already paid th…

It's confusing the way it is written and there's no actual map but:

"In turn, that means drivers can enter Midtown and Lower Manhattan by two bridges without paying as long as they go directly to the F.D.R. Drive along the East River and then continue on it until they are out of the congestion zone."

I believe what they're saying is that you still enter the congestion zone via those two bridges but you can stay on FDR drive and exit the zone without getting on interior streets [ADDED: and not get charged. FDR Drive is the road that runs along the East River.]

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#13

Post by jimmaswell »

liveoneggs wrote: post #8

a friend was once visiting me in manhattan and decided to drive. He came over on the george washington bridge ($15 toll), missed his turn to my block and ended up getting turned around and going over to brooklyn (tunnel, of course: $8.50 toll), realized he was in the wrong place and turned around ($8.50 back through the tunnel). This, of course, was after driving up from Virginia via I-95, which has its own $20+ wort…

I just recently learned about this. It's unbelievable. How can anyone defend a $15 toll? I'm glad I don't have any business in NYC.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#14

Post by jimmaswell »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #10
liveoneggs wrote: post #8

a friend was once visiting me in manhattan and decided to drive. He came over on the george washington bridge ($15 toll), missed his turn to my block and ended up getting turned around and going over to brooklyn (tunnel, of course: $8.50 toll), realized he was in the wrong place and turned around ($8.50 back through the tunnel). This, of course, was after driving up from Virginia via I-95, which has its own $20+ wort…

Freezing temperatures, salt, underground infrastructure, and large amounts of traffic increase costs tremendously. Additionally, sometimes the infrastructure cannot handle the demand, therefore demand has to be reduced, and the easiest (and maybe most optimal way for society) is to implement tolls.

Large amounts of traffic means more tolls collected. They could get by fine on a normal toll amount. $15 is indefensible. Why is the answer "screw the poor"?

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#16

Post by ghaff »

yellowstuff wrote: post #4
saas_co_de wrote: post #2

It seems like it would be fairer to privatize the roads entirely and force the people who can actually use them to pay the entire cost. Otherwise poor people are subsidizing roads reserved for the rich that they can't even use.

Even though this pushes road use into being more of a transaction I still don't believe that we should think about road use as a pure transaction. Infrastructure shapes how people live, work and play. Roads that cost $12 to drive will change the city differently than roads that cost $50 to drive on. Specifically, I'd be worried about driving away tourists and commercial traffic. I doubt a lot of well-off locals would…

Tourists is probably less of an issue for Manhattan than it would be a lot of places. Sure, there's the family of five from a nearby state that drives into the city for the weekend because the train costs add up for that many people. But, for most, trains, planes, or busses make a lot more sense given parking costs and the fact that driving into New York is pretty much a big pain. I've done it but not when I've had other reasonable options.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#17

Post by matchbok »

jimmaswell wrote: post #13
liveoneggs wrote: post #8

a friend was once visiting me in manhattan and decided to drive. He came over on the george washington bridge ($15 toll), missed his turn to my block and ended up getting turned around and going over to brooklyn (tunnel, of course: $8.50 toll), realized he was in the wrong place and turned around ($8.50 back through the tunnel). This, of course, was after driving up from Virginia via I-95, which has its own $20+ wort…

I just recently learned about this. It's unbelievable. How can anyone defend a $15 toll? I'm glad I don't have any business in NYC.

The millions of people who do live in NYC thank you. The toll is working as expected.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#18

Post by bryanlarsen »

jimmaswell wrote: post #13
liveoneggs wrote: post #8

a friend was once visiting me in manhattan and decided to drive. He came over on the george washington bridge ($15 toll), missed his turn to my block and ended up getting turned around and going over to brooklyn (tunnel, of course: $8.50 toll), realized he was in the wrong place and turned around ($8.50 back through the tunnel). This, of course, was after driving up from Virginia via I-95, which has its own $20+ wort…

I just recently learned about this. It's unbelievable. How can anyone defend a $15 toll? I'm glad I don't have any business in NYC.

It's unbelievable. How can anyone justify spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a bridge or a tunnel just for car usage when many New Yorkers don't even own a car? That's tens of thousands of dollars per resident. I'm glad I don't live in NYC.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#19

Post by ethbro »

jimmaswell wrote: post #14
lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freezing temperatures, salt, underground infrastructure, and large amounts of traffic increase costs tremendously. Additionally, sometimes the infrastructure cannot handle the demand, therefore demand has to be reduced, and the easiest (and maybe most optimal way for society) is to implement tolls.

Large amounts of traffic means more tolls collected. They could get by fine on a normal toll amount. $15 is indefensible. Why is the answer "screw the poor"?

$15 isn't indefensible if the project is solely or mostly funded with tolls (and therefore not out of state / city budget).

But as to toll (flat) vs tax (progressive), you're right: it's definitely screwing over the poor.

I'm all in favor of usage based charging, but "unaffordable to live near work on a moderate salary" + "we're going to tax your daily commute, the same as your boss" doesn't feel fair.

Re: Driving a Car in Manhattan Could Cost $11 Under Congestion Plan

#20

Post by HalcyonicStorm »

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #15

As someone living in Brooklyn who drives to NJ regularly, I wonder if this will increase congestion on the Staten Island bound route to NJ. People will dodge the Holland Tunnel to avoid this surcharge.

As someone in a similar position, majority of my time in the trip to NJ is spent on getting from Brooklyn to the outerborough bridge.
Post reply on HN