Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#691

Post by mncolinlee » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 3:28 AM UTC

LargeWu wrote: post #232

Woofles wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly certain that given Target already has a hold of Minneapolis, there's no way they'd allow Amazon to move in on their turf.

It was a major consideration from the standpoint of local and state government here. With both Target and Best Buy headquartered here, it would have ruffled a lot of feathers if Amazon would have received a bunch of handouts that homegrown companies weren't getting, especially since Amazon is completely dominating them both. There are also statutory limits on what incentives the MN state government can provide, on th…

Those limits didn't matter when Mayo called in 2013[1]. There's one reason Amazon didn't get any worthwhile tax breaks. The governor's sons own a bunch of Target shares.

Amazon was offered $100 per employee. The total package was smaller than St. Paul offered Cray to move 200 employees. And much smaller than the $12k per employee Best Buy got for their HQ.

[1] http://www.startribune.com/rochester-mayo-clinic-celebrate-5...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#692

Post by cthalupa » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 3:28 AM UTC

stevenwoo wrote: post #688

cthalupa wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cities in these states are not that different from cities anywhere else. I would be very surprised if you faced any additional discrimination in Nashville or Dallas than you would wherever you are feeling is a safe place. By the same token, rural New York and California are extremely conservative and have much of the same issues you seem to be worried about with the South.

The rural/urban divide is present as you describe in every state, but the difference is in some of the states listed as undesirable for minorities, the rural people outnumber the urban people and filled the state legislature and executive political offices with bigots based on the anti-other laws/regulations and anti-urban regulations(preventing urban regions from making anti-bigot rules) that made national news from…

Texas did not pass the bill I believe you are referring to.

R's from blue states are just as capable of introducing such bills, and have in the past.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#693

Post by jrnichols » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 3:54 AM UTC

larrydag wrote: post #97

chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

I'm in Dallas. - Currently has a large Amazon distribution center in the suburbs - Strong tech workforce and universities in the area. Other Tech companies in the area Dell(formerly EDS), ATT. Regional centers of Verizon, IBM, Microsoft, Alcatel/Lucent - Low property values and favorable tax structures. Plenty of areas to lease locations or to build in the suburbs or downtown. - International airport that is the hub…

> - Currently has a large Amazon distribution center in the suburbs

Amazon currently has EIGHT large distribution centers in the DFW area, actually.

And I think that they might be building a #9 and #10 within the next couple of years.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#694

Post by jrnichols » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 3:55 AM UTC

unexpected wrote: post #478

txsh wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand Austin is the headquarters of Whole Foods Market which owns a lot of real estate. Until recently they built stores with cash and often owned the shopping centers their stores were built in. Texas has no state income tax which wouldn’t be a public reason for the choice but is obviously going to be a factor. Austin is also a good culture fit with Seattle and is a startup hub.

I'm from Texas; I live in Dallas. I think Dallas is a much stronger option than Austin. Building a grocery store is far different than building a corporate campus. The interesting thing is that Amazon already has a presence in a lot of these cities, so they're intimately familiar with the day to day workings. There's not going to be any "sugar coating" by city officials. 1) Austin - Whole Foods 2) Newark - Audible 3)…

I wonder if they meant the city of Dallas itself. I'm not really sure where they'd even put a large HQ campus. Frisco/Plano/etc? absolutely. But in the City of Dallas proper?

Hmmm.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#695

Post by closeparen » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 4:19 AM UTC

biocomputation wrote: post #674

closeparen wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Young adults necessarily occupy space in a way that hasn’t yet been legitimized by the passage of much time. Populations that need to work for a living must go where there is work. Many of the consequences of this set of facts are dire and inhumane, and responsible public policy manages their impacts as best it can. A world with no new households is one that has stopped reproducing. A world where people are confined…

You could always refuse to participate in the social and economic destruction of communities by simply not working at places that have a disproportionate impact on the surrounding community. Yes, it's that easy! Fixed that for you.

The size of your employer has nothing to do with your contribution to housing demand. A million employees of two-person startups have the same effect as a million Googlers, assuming similar budgets.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#696

Post by cthalupa » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 4:44 AM UTC

jrnichols wrote: post #694

unexpected wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from Texas; I live in Dallas. I think Dallas is a much stronger option than Austin. Building a grocery store is far different than building a corporate campus. The interesting thing is that Amazon already has a presence in a lot of these cities, so they're intimately familiar with the day to day workings. There's not going to be any "sugar coating" by city officials. 1) Austin - Whole Foods 2) Newark - Audible 3)…

I wonder if they meant the city of Dallas itself. I'm not really sure where they'd even put a large HQ campus. Frisco/Plano/etc? absolutely. But in the City of Dallas proper? Hmmm.

Dallas proper had ~8 different sites that fit the criteria Amazon cited.

Amazon doesn't require it all be contiguous space - they have buildings all over Seattle.

Downtown has a lot of parking lots that could become buildings, Exposition Park could fit the whole thing, Victory Park submitted a proposal, and Midtown near the Galleria also submitted one, with a few others.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#697

Post by txsh » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 4:54 AM UTC

unexpected wrote: post #478

txsh wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand Austin is the headquarters of Whole Foods Market which owns a lot of real estate. Until recently they built stores with cash and often owned the shopping centers their stores were built in. Texas has no state income tax which wouldn’t be a public reason for the choice but is obviously going to be a factor. Austin is also a good culture fit with Seattle and is a startup hub.

I'm from Texas; I live in Dallas. I think Dallas is a much stronger option than Austin. Building a grocery store is far different than building a corporate campus. The interesting thing is that Amazon already has a presence in a lot of these cities, so they're intimately familiar with the day to day workings. There's not going to be any "sugar coating" by city officials. 1) Austin - Whole Foods 2) Newark - Audible 3)…

I think you misunderstood me. Whole Foods was unusual because it would buy the land and build shopping centers for its stores. The idea was that they could be their own landlords and rent out the rest of the space to other companies that have similar products and services. That’s why you’ll often see a natural pet food store or an organic restaurant next to a Whole Foods. They attract customers to each other.

Over the years they’ve bought real estate based on the number of college graduates who live nearby. Having started in Austin decades ago they most certainly own a lot of land there in prime locations.

So, now that Amazon owns Whole Foods, it might already own a lot of the land it needs to build its new campus. If it builds elsewhere it might be much more costly.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#698

Post by biocomputation » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 4:54 AM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #678

biocomputation wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gentrification disproportionately affects communities of color. This is quite exactly what's happening in Seattle. I hear this argument a lot and it's really like saying "only people who own property should be allowed to vote". You're saying that only property owners belong in the community. That's just sad and wrong - not to mention racist in the context of this discussion - and it truly exemplifies the attitude tha…

No, I'm saying that nobody is entitled to anything. I love how you bring up the race card. Please explain to me the system of who gets to suddenly stop a city from changing, and when? Your attitude is based on emotion and illogic. So if I'm talking about South Boston, where it is white Irish Americans being booted out by a much more racially diverse professional class, am I bigoted against whites? Again, you have an…

People who have been in an area for a long time have every right to fight back against overwhelming changes that have incredibly serious long-term implications for their quality of life.

It's a sign of your argument's inherent weakness that you equate people's heartfelt sentiments about feeling overwhelmed by cost-of-living increases, and the resulting destruction of their communities, with Donald Trump's agenda.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#699

Post by closeparen » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 5:10 AM UTC

biocomputation wrote: post #677

JPKab wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL that people own the neighborhoods they live in by virtue of being there first, without any form of payment, deed, title, or record of ownership. I should point out that the arguments against gentrification are identical to the arguments white ethnic urban neighborhoods made against blacks moving into their neighborhoods in the mid 20th century. "They are ruining the character of our city! We were here first!" Los…

Gentrification disproportionately affects communities of color. This is quite exactly what's happening in Seattle. I hear this argument a lot and it's really like saying "only people who own property should be allowed to vote". You're saying that only property owners belong in the community. That's just sad and wrong - not to mention racist in the context of this discussion - and it truly exemplifies the attitude tha…

It’s a cycle. Tenants need more rights => the economics for landlords are less attractive => the supply of rental housing dwindles => tenants need more rights.

Rearranging the deck chairs can only get us so far in the face of scarcity. The experiment in a distributed and suburban country is over. The population is urbanizing, as it has throughout human history. Whether it wants to or not, that's where jobs are going. That presssure will always show up in some form or another unless the housing supply grows to meet it.

Whether it’s the market or the government, someone needed to be building on a massive scale, yesterday. That’s not incompatible with protecting long term renters, but when we make it less lucrative to build we must also give more of a push to build anyway.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#700

Post by chrisco255 » Fri, Jan 19, 2018, 5:51 AM UTC

unexpected wrote: post #190

arcanus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google HQ2 is rumored to be looking at Dallas. Do you mean Apple? Dallas should be a very credible option, even if it might be #2 in Texas, behind Austin.

I can't see Amazon moving to Austin. Austin is a very popular "2nd Campus" for tech companies, but it's not a great "HQ". 1) Poor airport connectivity 2) Seriously bad traffic options, with limited ability for build out 3) Not a lot of great public transit options 4) Limited ability for free land/property tax abatements/government handouts Austin is a strong candidate because of UT Austin, but UT Austin students prim…

Austin's airport is fine, if a bit small. It's got plenty of room to grow, though, and it does pale in comparison to Houston and Dallas airports. However, let's not lose the big picture: Austin is a hub of tech talent. Tech talent wants to be in tech hubs. Neither Houston nor Dallas are seen as tech hubs. Austin is. Austin has a critical mass of hardware companies (Intel, AMD, TI, NI, Dell) and software companies (Apple, Google, IBM, Oracle, Indeed, Facebook, HomeAway, Atlassian, Blizzard, etc.) all have substantial offices here. Even Amazon already has an office here. Despite the lack of great public infrastructure, Austin is a great fit for Amazon HQ2. Would love to have them here, especially if they poured money into infrastructure. Austin is the fastest growing major city in the U.S. with or without Amazon. Better to have them here and help build up the infrastructure than without them.