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Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

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Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#351

Post by khedoros1 »

exhilaration wrote: post #283
cm2187 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The network provider records which antenna you trigger but has no need of recording your precise GPS location. Google has absolutely no good reason to record your GPS location without your consent other than for nosy purposes.

My understanding is that thanks to E911 your precise location is tracked, and that's the information that mobile phone network operators provide to law enforcement through their location portals: ... web portal that Sprint provides law enforcement to conduct automated “pings” to track users. Through the website, authorized agents can type in a mobile phone number and obtain global positioning system (GPS) coordinates…

Apparently, E911 is just the technology that delivers a location to the emergency call center. Collecting data about the actual location is just a range specification: https://www.fcc.gov/general/enhanced-9-1-1-wireless-services

They allow network-based location (like signal triangulation), where the location needs to be withing 100 meters for 67 percent of calls and 300 meters for 95 percent of the calls, and handset-based navigation (like GPS) where it has to be within 50 meters for 67% of calls, and within 150 meters for 90% of calls.

Within those guidelines, I think that the phone provider can propose methods to use and have them approved by the FCC. But I guess whether your "precise" location gets tracked depends on the level of precision you're thinking of.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#352

Post by jrochkind1 »

kuschku wrote: post #344
jrochkind1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, they don't intentionally track or keep tracking data, but for cell phones to work the network _has_ to know what tower you are next to (or really what 'cell' you are in, why it's called a 'cellular phone'), to deliver a phone call or txt to you. What happens if they get a law enforcement request with warrant/subpoena? I bet the data is there to be delivered. If they aren't _very_ intentional about scrubbing it,…

> What happens if they get a law enforcement request with warrant/subpoena? I bet the data is there to be delivered. If they aren't _very_ intentional about scrubbing it, it's maybe there in some historical logs too. Under current German and EU law, they can only keep logs as long as technically necessary. If a warrant, specific to me, personally, exists, they can collect future connection info. And I’m okay with tha…

Have you ever actually audited exactly what logs your enterprise is keeping? Most people haven't.

The law notwithstanding, minimizing personally identifiable information in logs actually requires intentional and positive action (meaning additional hours/expense). If you just let all your systems produce what logs they do by default, get backed up if they happen to get backed up, etc. -- you will have quite a bit more logging bits sitting around than you probably realized or intended or needed. Is it more than is "technically necessary"? I am not sure what that phrase means legally or practically. But I doubt that law has actually resulted in companies spending significant additional staff time minimizing logs they didn't really mean to be keeping int the first place. It is not a trivial operation.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#353

Post by seba_dos1 »

It's time again to advertise microG - free software reimplementation of Google Play Services which allows one to somehow control their privacy without abstaining from most of the Android software out there that require Play Services. There are even constantly updated images of a preconfigured LineageOS fork - https://lineage.microg.org/

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#355

Post by kuschku »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #352
kuschku wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What happens if they get a law enforcement request with warrant/subpoena? I bet the data is there to be delivered. If they aren't _very_ intentional about scrubbing it, it's maybe there in some historical logs too. Under current German and EU law, they can only keep logs as long as technically necessary. If a warrant, specific to me, personally, exists, they can collect future connection info. And I’m okay with tha…

Have you ever actually audited exactly what logs your enterprise is keeping? Most people haven't. The law notwithstanding, minimizing personally identifiable information in logs actually requires intentional and positive action (meaning additional hours/expense). If you just let all your systems produce what logs they do by default, get backed up if they happen to get backed up, etc. -- you will have quite a bit more…

> But I doubt that law has actually resulted in companies spending significant additional staff time minimizing logs they didn't really mean to be keeping int the first place. It is not a trivial operation.

This is Germany – the place where the requirement for websites to contain a working contact address in the real world is enforced not through law, but through people just suing every website owner whose site doesn’t have an imprint.

The ISP is only keeping as much as absolutely necessary, because every bit more would be an unnecessary legal liability. Personal data is a liability, not an asset.

Of course, there’s also companies with different viewpoints, but this one doesn’t keep any more than absolutely necessary.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#356

Post by brokenmachine »

DrScump wrote: post #315
izacus wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are explicitly asked about that feature when settinng up your phone for the first time.

Many non-technical types just have the store staffer walk through those steps, and others aren't likely to understand the implications of those settings.

They can hardly complain to Google when the device doesn't behave as desired then.

They should complain to the store staffer or make some effort to find out what those settings the are enabled actually do.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#357

Post by brokenmachine »

jdietrich wrote: post #342
TeMPOraL wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are a lot of news stories out there about how taxi drivers end up with a great memories from having to remember all the routes The question is, does that do them any good? It might help them in the rare case there's a problem with navigation data, but 99% of the time it's a wasted effort, and personally, I purposefully prefer taxis/transport services that use navigation. My own opinion is that we should treat…

>The question is, does that do them any good? It might help them in the rare case there's a problem with navigation data, but 99% of the time it's a wasted effort Yes, very much so. The road layout in London is absolutely insane , because the city was established in AD 43. Finding efficient routes requires a great deal of local knowledge and contextual understanding. Black cab drivers are extremely good at minimaxing…

Here in Sydney, Australia, the taxi drivers are generally hopeless and in many cases can hardly manage basic English, let alone navigate properly.

That's why I understand Uber has become popular but not all of my experiences with Uber have been so crash hot either.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#358

Post by brokenmachine »

KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #269
dwg wrote: post #146

Growing pains on the way to a true digital personal assistant. The industry has to figure out how to deal with privacy concerns, because a digital assistant which is continuously aware of your location and what you're doing will be tremendously useful. It's a little friend in your pocket that we won't be able to imagine living without. Traffic jam ahead? Got you covered. Can't remember someones name? I've got it here…

>It's a little friend in your pocket No, it's not. Google is entirely incentivised to extract the maximum amount of value from those reliant on their services, and the level of dependence is proportional to how much much they can potentially make off you. This is how a company works, and this is fine, but it is very dangerous to imagine that Google has anyone's best-interest at heart except their own.

But it is symbiotic in some ways.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#359

Post by dontnotice »

KhanMahGretsch wrote: post #271
dontnotice wrote: post #181

It's always surprising how much comments and postings in these parts are vehemently in opposition to data being usefully incorporated into these apps and services, I remember a recent post about how Google's passive on device music identification worked on the Pixel 2 which turned hostel. I understand that certain types of people are attracted to certain topics but it's still somewhat jarring when in a technology dis…

I think the article primarily addresses the tone-deaf way in which Google addresses the user, not so much the practice of gathering data and providing useful suggestions to the user "like magic", which does indeed have it's benefits. There's an implied deal that the user will provide their data to Google so they may profit from it, and in return they will provide you with a service free-of-charge. The article, and so…

I was responding more to the comments in this thread.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#360

Post by yellow_postit »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #114
Raphmedia wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My memory is terrible enough that I can't do those things myself. One could argue that your memory is terrible because you know you can rely on those services.

Well, my memory is good enough to remember that in the pre-Google world I had no way to find out reviews of restaurants in a city I was visiting, let alone 'memorize' them.

Travel guides have been a thing for a very long time
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