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Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

nytimes.com

41–50 of 244 posts

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#41

Let's say they succeed in launching a new generics company. Ten years down the line they will divest in order to build each hospital a shiny new geriatrics wing. Within six months the spun-off drug company will jack up prices and the cycle will continue.

Agree, however the market would have an additional significant competitor, as well as a blue-print and success example for others to emulate if they decide not to defend their value prop.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#42
post #22
post #2

I am not sure if patients will see any of the savings though. I view hospitals as fundamentally dishonest organizations after a few experiences. Their medical treatment is fine but their financial practices are borderline fraudulent.

Well, some hospitals are honest, and dedicated to patient care. And some are dishonest, and only in it for the money. But whatever, none of them are as evil as most drug companies.

Good Lord, people truly just don't get it. Hospitals are not evil; they are tasked with saving people's lives. People who nobody else can save. All the worst medical problems in the world--sometimes sudden trauma, sometimes a festering problem left to burst--they all end up on the doorstep of the hospitals, full of doctors, nurses, and technicians who are humans just like you and me. And they work ridiculous hours saving as many of us as they can, dragging bodies back from the footsteps of Death itself. Some of them making great money doing it, but others just because it's not in their nature to do anything but help. And yes, like any organization, hospitals scramble for cash to keep the lights on and keep operations going for a mission they hold sacred. But you show up at an ER, and you will get a minimum standard of care, no questions asked. And that's pretty amazing.

Disclaimer: None. I don't work in the medical industry.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#43
post #37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your car is unlikely to experience life-threatening complications with a nearly unbounded upper cost while it's being fixed. Your body is. A routine surgery can absolutely turn into a hundred-thousand-dollar nightmare. Never mind that a mechanic has a much better understanding of a car, then a doctor does of a human body.

But is the high cost of those surgeries a product of the broken system? I say yes.

In Canada, developing an accidental MRSA infection after a routine surgery will trivially turn a $5000 procedure into a $25,000 package of life-saving treatment and associated hospital stay.

When things go bad in medicine, your bill grows really, really, really fast.

Also, unlike a mechanic with a car, your doctor can't stop working on you after they blow through their quoted budget and ask if you still want to pay for treating the complications. I mean, they can, but unless you've got a death wish, you're not going to say 'no.'

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#44
post #43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But is the high cost of those surgeries a product of the broken system? I say yes.

In Canada, developing an accidental MRSA infection after a routine surgery will trivially turn a $5000 procedure into a $25,000 package of life-saving treatment and associated hospital stay. When things go bad in medicine, your bill grows really, really, really fast. Also, unlike a mechanic with a car, your doctor can't stop working on you after they blow through their quoted budget and ask if you still want to pay f…

And in the USA, it'll probably turn a 10-15k procedure into a 125+k scenario.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#45

Let's say they succeed in launching a new generics company. Ten years down the line they will divest in order to build each hospital a shiny new geriatrics wing. Within six months the spun-off drug company will jack up prices and the cycle will continue.

Agree, however the market would have an additional significant competitor, as well as a blue-print and success example for others to emulate if they decide not to defend their value prop.

The problem is that the most effective way to defend your value proposition seems to be buying laws that protect you against new competition. Entrenched players might compete with each other, but they can all agree to crush the new guy together.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#46
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, some hospitals are honest, and dedicated to patient care. And some are dishonest, and only in it for the money. But whatever, none of them are as evil as most drug companies.

Good Lord, people truly just don't get it. Hospitals are not evil; they are tasked with saving people's lives. People who nobody else can save. All the worst medical problems in the world--sometimes sudden trauma, sometimes a festering problem left to burst--they all end up on the doorstep of the hospitals, full of doctors, nurses, and technicians who are humans just like you and me. And they work ridiculous hours sa…

All you are saying is correct but you can't excuse their billing practices.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#47
post #33

This is happening in my country and the government has said they'll back any pharmacy deciding to mix the drugs themselves. Healthcare costs are spiralling out of control. It'll lead to a metric ton of courtcases all the way to Strasbourg and beyond though. The Americans may threaten to invade.

Just offer to let Trump put his name on a hotel there, or a condo building attractive to Russians wanting to launder some money. Tada, no risk of a US invasion and you may even get better trade deals.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#48
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, some hospitals are honest, and dedicated to patient care. And some are dishonest, and only in it for the money. But whatever, none of them are as evil as most drug companies.

Good Lord, people truly just don't get it. Hospitals are not evil; they are tasked with saving people's lives. People who nobody else can save. All the worst medical problems in the world--sometimes sudden trauma, sometimes a festering problem left to burst--they all end up on the doorstep of the hospitals, full of doctors, nurses, and technicians who are humans just like you and me. And they work ridiculous hours sa…

> Good Lord, people truly just don't get it. Hospitals are not evil; they are tasked with saving people's lives. People who nobody else can save. All the worst medical problems in the world--sometimes sudden trauma, sometimes a festering problem left to burst--they all end up on the doorstep of the hospitals, full of doctors, nurses, and technicians who are humans just like you and me. And they work ridiculous hours saving as many of us as they can, dragging bodies back from the footsteps of Death itself. Some of them making great money doing it, but others just because it's not in their nature to do anything but help. And yes, like any organization, hospitals scramble for cash to keep the lights on and keep operations going for a mission they hold sacred. But you show up at an ER, and you will get a minimum standard of care, no questions asked. And that's pretty amazing.

I don't think people are complaining about the doctors and nurses. They're complaining about the institutional billing & pricing practices -- and not just the exorbitant prices. Americans have trouble even getting price quotes for routine procedures [1]... a problem that, as I understand, many other countries simply don't have. How can you completely miss these fundamental problems and then claim "people truly just don't get it"?

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hospitals-prices/hospital...

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#49

Let's say they succeed in launching a new generics company. Ten years down the line they will divest in order to build each hospital a shiny new geriatrics wing. Within six months the spun-off drug company will jack up prices and the cycle will continue.

This is all nice and cynical sounding like HN loves when it comes to big companies, but even then: is that such a bad thing? You have ten years of a lot of people getting cheaper and better access to drugs, and you have a bunch of hospitals getting much-needed capacity increases with state-of-the-art facilities, and you have a proven business model for someone else to come in and take their turn at the money-making w…

Concur with maj maj maj maj... additionally, the the cynisism ignores the introduction of new competitive forces with a different moral vector in a largley unchecked market, the repurcussions of which are certainly uncertain, for certain.

Re: Fed Up with Drug Companies, Hospitals Decide to Start Their Own

#50
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, some hospitals are honest, and dedicated to patient care. And some are dishonest, and only in it for the money. But whatever, none of them are as evil as most drug companies.

Good Lord, people truly just don't get it. Hospitals are not evil; they are tasked with saving people's lives. People who nobody else can save. All the worst medical problems in the world--sometimes sudden trauma, sometimes a festering problem left to burst--they all end up on the doorstep of the hospitals, full of doctors, nurses, and technicians who are humans just like you and me. And they work ridiculous hours sa…

That's certainly true for many hospitals, even most. And for most of their staff. But some of the profit-driven chains are nowhere that idealistic. And some physicians are jerks.[0]

0) http://www.americanpatient.org/drive-by-medicine.html

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