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Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

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Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#91

Post by acchow »

andys627 wrote: post #17
charlesdm wrote: post #8

Now, I don't live in Denmark, but am I the only one here who wouldn't like (excessive) tax policies like that? A 180% tax (now to be lowered a bit) on a vehicle seems madly excessive. It's like a ban, without actually having the guts to call it a ban. I'm assuming most normal people are unable to afford a car then. I'm not a car nut (don't even really like cars, though I do own one and don't use it often) but wouldn'…

They're not excessive - they're more in line with true cost of car dependent society. In the US we shower subsidies on car owners. Some examples: using general fund money to build highways, charging low gas taxes that don't cover cost of maintenance of roads, providing free/underpriced parking in every downtown in the US, undercharging for pollution and other negative externalities of driving, requiring minimum amoun…

I think you should be supporting taxing car usage, not car ownership. 500% gasoline tax instead of 100% car tax.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#92

Post by ars »

ucaetano wrote: post #88
ars wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between taxing income and taxing spending. They are opposites, so the tax rate should also be opposite - the higher the spending the lower the tax. After all, you want to encourage wealthy people to spend and spread the wealth, not encourage them to hoard it.

> you want to encourage wealthy people to spend Not on cars.

Why not? In what way is a cheaper car socially better than an expensive car?

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#93

Post by sundvor »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #76
olivermarks wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They re not sure when to reduce the tax but sales have gone down anyway, probably in anticipation of changes 'Norway has been hugely successful in introducing electric cars and aims to sell only zero-emission new vehicles by 2025. But critics argue that their popularity is mostly down to an extremely generous set of subsidies that can cut the price of the most expensive Teslas by about NKr450,000. When and how to wit…

Uhm, it is not exactly subsidies in Norway, but a reduction in a very high tax for EVs, making them comparatively more affordable than ICEs.

Yep. EVs are both exempt of MVA (GST/VAT) tax and registration fee, whereas combustion engines vehicles (CVs?) are most definitely not. Thus EVs are thus cheap or at least affordable by function of contrast.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#94

Post by ucaetano »

ars wrote: post #92
ucaetano wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you want to encourage wealthy people to spend Not on cars.

Why not? In what way is a cheaper car socially better than an expensive car?

You don't want cars overall to start with.

And as wealth increases, the negative utility of a 1% increase in price of a certain good decreases for that buyer, requiring higher taxes to have the same disincentive than for lower income buyers.

Also, cars (especially luxury ones) are highly unproductive assets.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#95

Post by zackmorris »

I noticed most of the comments in this thread were about not wanting a high tax rate of 100%. I just want to offer a counterexample where people are all for it: in Costa Rica there is a similar import tax on luxury and technology items and is roughly 50-80% on cars:

http://www.costaricatax.com/import-tax.htm

http://www.costaricatax.com/luxury-tax-cars.htm

One of the main reasons for this is that everyone wants to go to Costa Rica because it's one of the nicest places in the world. So in a very real sense their import tax is a "pay to stay" tax. As Denmark is also one of the nicest places in the world, they do this as well.

Everyone forgets that in the end, the people are the beneficiaries of these taxes by way of government services like free healthcare and education. Eventually benefits will come as universal basic income (UBI) as well.

Now for the opinion part - I find it sad that the United Stated of America no longer has any appreciable tariffs, so in a way doesn't think of itself as a really nice place to go anymore. 40 years of so-called conservative thinking on this (that government of/by/for the people is somehow the enemy) has done a great injustice to our culture and global image as a beacon of democracy. I was born in 77 so just barely remember that it didn't always used to be this way. I fear that young people today are experiencing their cultural worth being stolen and that their feeling of ineffectualness is being amplified by divisive political tactics that will never pan out. Low taxes generally cause these sorts of problems; lower taxes will make them worse. And taxes just got lower, supposedly, even though the US already pays some of the lowest taxes in the industrialized world. The very fact that the US is unlikely to raise taxes appreciably anytime in the foreseeable future does not bode well for our quality of life IMHO.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#96

Post by ars »

ucaetano wrote: post #94
ars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? In what way is a cheaper car socially better than an expensive car?

You don't want cars overall to start with. And as wealth increases, the negative utility of a 1% increase in price of a certain good decreases for that buyer, requiring higher taxes to have the same disincentive than for lower income buyers. Also, cars (especially luxury ones) are highly unproductive assets.

> You don't want cars overall to start with.

So you punish those who have/want one? Ouch, I wouldn't want to live in your world.

Work the other side, make people want to not have one. Making people's life miserable is not a good way to manage your citizens.

> And as wealth increases ... lower income buyers.

Except that the wealthy person just buys a cheaper car. They still have a car, and you have not accomplished your goal.

Your mistake is you taxed spending, without even checking income.

Your scheme does not make people not get a car, it causes people to get a cheaper car, that's all.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#97

Post by khedoros1 »

Drdrdrq wrote: post #34
ebbv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I obviously don't know where you live, but it sounds crazy to people in the US because in most of the US public transportation an bicycle infrastructure is not where it needs to be to make them viable for daily life. In places where public transportation is better (like say NYC), car ownership is the exception rather than the rule. The reality is cars have a massive public cost that we all subsidize via various taxes…

> so that 1 hour (or longer) commutes via car are not the norm. Is this really the norm in the states? Is this just home -> work route or does it include dropping off kids, shopping,...? Genuinly curious...

I have a 15 minute commute, but I'm atypical. One of the patterns that grew in (as I understand it) the 1940s and 1950s was the tendency to work in the city, but have a home farther out in the suburbs.

Apparently, the average commute time is 25.4 minutes, according to the US Census Bureau (although it gets much higher in some places): https://project.wnyc.org/commute-times-us/embed.html#5.00/42...

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#98

Post by khedoros1 »

andys627 wrote: post #77
colde wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there are an annual registration fee as well. Spread over to payments a year. It isn't much though, and it depends on how environmentally friendly your car is. I think the lowest rate is approx 200 USD pr. year.

> Isn't much... $200/yr. For comparison: California $83/yr. Nevada $33/yr.

I don't have the exact number with me, but CA was much closer to $200 for my 10 year old car, last year.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#99

Post by ucaetano »

ars wrote: post #96
ucaetano wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want cars overall to start with. And as wealth increases, the negative utility of a 1% increase in price of a certain good decreases for that buyer, requiring higher taxes to have the same disincentive than for lower income buyers. Also, cars (especially luxury ones) are highly unproductive assets.

> You don't want cars overall to start with. So you punish those who have/want one? Ouch, I wouldn't want to live in your world. Work the other side, make people want to not have one. Making people's life miserable is not a good way to manage your citizens. > And as wealth increases ... lower income buyers. Except that the wealthy person just buys a cheaper car. They still have a car, and you have not accomplished yo…

> So you punish those who have/want one? Ouch, I wouldn't want to live in your world.

No. Cars have negative externalities to society, so you tax them to account for those externalities.

This is the same reason why governments subsidize infrastructure and education, as those generate positive externalities to society, and most of the value generated is in those externalities, you need a negative tax on those items to incentivize them.

Or the same reason why governments subsidize electric cars.

> Except that the wealthy person just buys a cheaper car. They still have a car, and you have not accomplished your goal.

Sure, but you're providing the same economic disincentive as you are for a poor person (in relative utility), which is a fairer way to do it.

> Your mistake is you taxed spending, without even checking income.

You don't seem to understand the concept of positive and negative externalities.

I'm not proposing to tax spending, I'm proposing to tax a good so that its price accurately reflects the negative impact on society it causes.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#100

Post by opencl »

Zekio wrote: post #55
msencenb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm sad to see this lowered as I think it set up good incentives. High taxation in general, plus high car taxation, means that taxes will be allocated towards alternative transportation options. In Denmark this has meant bicycle infrastructure and culture which has been shown to make humans both happier and healthier. Not to mention that older cars means a lighter touch on the earth (heavy metals, fuel, et…

"Not to mention that older cars means a lighter touch on the earth (heavy metals, fuel, etc)." ??? older cars doesn't mean a lighter touch on earth in relation to fuel, they can generally drive a shorter distance on the same amount of fuel and likely also have worse filters

Producing more cars obviously uses resources.

Looking at EPA numbers fuel economy improvements in recent years seems to have been minuscule. From 2007 to 2017 the Corolla went from 31mpg to 30, the Focus went from 27mpg to 28, the Highlander saw zero change at 22mpg.

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=23549 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38152.shtml

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/22758.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38473.shtml

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/23765.shtml https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/38414.shtml

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