What is the point of allowing discussion? HN would not allow a post on this topic from an opposing viewpoint to get to the front page. Moreover, this particular point of view is from a radical organization - you can't really have intellectual discourse with people who refuse to see any other position than theirs.
Getting free of toxic tech culture
81–90 of 420 posts
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#82What is the point of allowing discussion? HN would not allow a post on this topic from an opposing viewpoint to get to the front page. Moreover, this particular point of view is from a radical organization - you can't really have intellectual discourse with people who refuse to see any other position than theirs.
What is the opposing viewpoint? Is it articulated clearly somewhere?
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#83I predict people will claim "our culture isn't that toxic. Some of those things happen, but they don't bother me much." If any non-zero subset of reasonable people are so offended by a behavior that they'd leave the industry because of it, we have to cut it out. So don't ask "would this bother me?" Ask "would it bother someone?" And since you can't predict this from inside your head, you have to rely on firsthand acc…
> If any non-zero subset of reasonable people
Isn't the problem here that there is really no global (or even industry-wide) consensus on what's reasonable and what's not?
What feels perfectly reasonable to one may look absolutely and intolerably insane to someone else. And vice versa.
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#84What is the point of allowing discussion? HN would not allow a post on this topic from an opposing viewpoint to get to the front page. Moreover, this particular point of view is from a radical organization - you can't really have intellectual discourse with people who refuse to see any other position than theirs.
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16182520 and marked it off-topic.
Your first point is empirically false, though I'm too lazy to look for links. The second point seems circular, but doesn't matter in any case, since the idea here is to have good conversation with each other.
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#85I predict people will claim "our culture isn't that toxic. Some of those things happen, but they don't bother me much." If any non-zero subset of reasonable people are so offended by a behavior that they'd leave the industry because of it, we have to cut it out. So don't ask "would this bother me?" Ask "would it bother someone?" And since you can't predict this from inside your head, you have to rely on firsthand acc…
I disagree. I am not responsible for others feelings. There should be clear rules of conduct at any job and a clear process of enforcement. This make the situation fair and certain. One easy rule is that if someone says "Only talk to me about work." then the other person has to respect it. No forcing of social acceptance , no shaming the other to believe what you believe, just focus on what you were hired for. This i…
As a manager, you're absolutely responsible for your team member's feelings. Both morally and practically because if they feel bad at work, they'll leave.
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#86I wonder if a lot of toxicity in tech culture is that it is billed as a lifestyle and identity more than just a job.
One of the big drivers for civil rights came from the experience in WWII. In war, there is an overarching purpose. You want to achieve your mission, and survive the war to make it home to your family. The identity of those who help you achieve those goals doesn't matter as much (very few people care about the skin color of someone who saves their life).
What if tech became less of an identity and more of just a job that you did with your co-workers not to "change to world", but just to make money?
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#87>What is toxic tech culture? Toxic tech cultures are those that demean and devalue you as holistic, multifaceted human beings. Toxic tech cultures are those that prioritize profits and growth over human and societal well being. Toxic tech cultures are those that treat you as replaceable cogs within a system of constant churn and burnout. has there been any factory floor, farm, private or government office where thing…
> "prioritize profits and growth over human and societal well being" As in: what every corporation is, by law, required to do. If it doesn't, lawsuits follow.
No, that's a myth. Look it up, fiduciary duty does not involve duty to maximize profits no matter what. There's no such law and the laws that exist give the management very wide leeway in how the company is managed, as long as it is not overtly subverting company's resources for one's own (or somebody else's own) benefit to the detriment of the company. As long as you have a plausible argument that it's for the good of the company, in a very wide understanding of it, it's fine with the law.
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#88What is the point of allowing discussion? HN would not allow a post on this topic from an opposing viewpoint to get to the front page. Moreover, this particular point of view is from a radical organization - you can't really have intellectual discourse with people who refuse to see any other position than theirs.
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Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#89> The refrain of how a startup CEO is going to save humanity is so common that it’s actually uncommon for a CEO to not use saviour language when describing their startup. Cult leaders do the same thing: they create a unique philosophy, imbued with some sort of special message that they alone can see or hear, convince people that only they have the answers for what ails humanity, and use that influence to control the…
Can you describe in what ways SV feels like Animal Farm? > The Orwellian mismatch between rhetoric and action feels like cult-like propaganda to me. Can you list out a few of these actions?
work life balance is double speak for : your life is your work
an extreme cynical view , but that is the beauty of it , its hidden in plain sight.
How can a company give indefinite vacation, only if it hires and prevays a culture of overwork? The type of people hired will never take that vacation.
Im not right , but im not wrong. The point is "work life balance" and "unlimited vacation" are not clear ideas on the reality of the environments and for some they can be a rose colored glass over the true experience.
SV is very much the benevolent dictator ... giving you everything you could ask for , just be its slave.
Can a slave only be a slave for 10 years and leave? Can a job that pays over 6 figures feel like slavery?
I answer yes to the latter. You are payed well , but you are not respected as a developer. This will only change when we become the heads of our industry and not the tools to be used by money men.
Re: Getting free of toxic tech culture
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure conditions in most tech companies are adequately described as "working in hell". I mean, the article above mentions "free cafeteria, gym, yoga rooms, and all night snack bars", and in companies like Google it goes way beyond that, plus salary that is way over the average... pretty much anywhere outside banking industry? plus vacations, medical coverage, 401k and other nice stuff - and then on top of that…
Ah yes... perks. Makes those endless late nights a bit less awful. Plus you get to work on such wonderful stuff! The Juicero team is probably still swollen with um... pride. Above average salary paired with wasaay above average cost of living and nightmare commutimg. Plus a chance at striking it rich which is somewhere between playing Powerball and the nickel slots. But hey, at least most of you love what you do, and…
Would you please stop ranting on HN, and particularly in this thread? Whatever you're doing here, thoughtful conversation is not it.