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Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

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Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#51

Post by alkonaut »

olivermarks wrote: post #28
alkonaut wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People drive. A lot. It’s just widely accepted that this is what a car costs. The main problem I see with a high tax is that people might circumvent it (illegal imports etc). An interesting effect of these high taxes is that you can very “cheaply” subsidize EVs now. It’s lost revenue so it’s still a cost - but it’s easier to swallow and administer. Just tax them at 10% instead of 100% and a Tesla Model S is immediate…

A side note in the article is the collapse of electric vehicle sales in Norway. '...the current administration had decided to phase out tax breaks on electric cars, citing budget constraints and the desire to level the playing field. That decision was delayed in June amid a dramatic drop in sales of Electrically Chargeable Vehicles (ECVs)'. ECV sales have relied very heavily on subsidy in most of the western world, i…

EVs will sell just fine without subsidy once prices for long-range ones reaches parity with ICEs. I’m willing to pay a premium to drive an EV but perhaps 10% or so, not more. If subsidies are removed too soon, sales (increases) will flatten. A good reason for subsidizing heavily early on is to get critical mass in infrastructure with chargers etc.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#52

Post by dang »

expertentipp wrote: post #32

I just derive some perverted pleasure from seeing Scandinavians hitting themselves in the name of their self-righteousness.

Nationalistic swipes will get you banned here. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#53

Post by Tehnix »

ansgri wrote: post #39

I understand the viewpoint that less cars = better cities. But worse cars? Because this heavily penalizes buying better cars. I understand the need to segment the tax burden by income level, but it seems reasonable to make the maximum tax level so that, e.g. you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. You can play even the safety card here: more expensive cars have more advanced automation and safety…

> more expensive cars have more advenced automation and safety features, so their use should be encouraged

That would indeed be the long term play, but as most democratically elected governments, they have a 4 year window in which they don't want to be known as "The guys that cut away a ton of welfare, so people could get cheaper cars", since the immediate effect would be a loss of money. Unless of course, people started buying more new cars, but that is speculative, and a gamble that not many of the bigger parties seem willing to make :(

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#54

Post by msencenb »

charlesdm wrote: post #8

Now, I don't live in Denmark, but am I the only one here who wouldn't like (excessive) tax policies like that? A 180% tax (now to be lowered a bit) on a vehicle seems madly excessive. It's like a ban, without actually having the guts to call it a ban. I'm assuming most normal people are unable to afford a car then. I'm not a car nut (don't even really like cars, though I do own one and don't use it often) but wouldn'…

Personally I'm sad to see this lowered as I think it set up good incentives.

High taxation in general, plus high car taxation, means that taxes will be allocated towards alternative transportation options. In Denmark this has meant bicycle infrastructure and culture which has been shown to make humans both happier and healthier. Not to mention that older cars means a lighter touch on the earth (heavy metals, fuel, etc).

Taxation is a good way to apply pressure, and I think we often overlook the power that high taxation has for good policy. Instead we get lower taxation and 'let the market decide' which often results in a more wealth inequality and worse pollution among other things.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#55

Post by Zekio »

msencenb wrote: post #54
charlesdm wrote: post #8

Now, I don't live in Denmark, but am I the only one here who wouldn't like (excessive) tax policies like that? A 180% tax (now to be lowered a bit) on a vehicle seems madly excessive. It's like a ban, without actually having the guts to call it a ban. I'm assuming most normal people are unable to afford a car then. I'm not a car nut (don't even really like cars, though I do own one and don't use it often) but wouldn'…

Personally I'm sad to see this lowered as I think it set up good incentives. High taxation in general, plus high car taxation, means that taxes will be allocated towards alternative transportation options. In Denmark this has meant bicycle infrastructure and culture which has been shown to make humans both happier and healthier. Not to mention that older cars means a lighter touch on the earth (heavy metals, fuel, et…

"Not to mention that older cars means a lighter touch on the earth (heavy metals, fuel, etc)."

??? older cars doesn't mean a lighter touch on earth in relation to fuel, they can generally drive a shorter distance on the same amount of fuel and likely also have worse filters

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#56

Post by ansgri »

ucaetano wrote: post #50
ansgri wrote: post #39

I understand the viewpoint that less cars = better cities. But worse cars? Because this heavily penalizes buying better cars. I understand the need to segment the tax burden by income level, but it seems reasonable to make the maximum tax level so that, e.g. you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. You can play even the safety card here: more expensive cars have more advanced automation and safety…

> you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. That would be the same as capping income tax: you pay a 20% rate up to $100k of taxes, after that, no incremental taxes. It's the opposite of progressive, actually taxing rich people less than poor people. I'd even go and propose that cars over €50k should be taxed at a higher marginal tax rate than lower-priced cars.

Well, to extract welfare funding from rich people you already have income taxes (maybe even progressive), why exactly does one want to encourage a low-quality lifestyle?

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#57

Post by martinmunk »

ansgri wrote: post #39

I understand the viewpoint that less cars = better cities. But worse cars? Because this heavily penalizes buying better cars. I understand the need to segment the tax burden by income level, but it seems reasonable to make the maximum tax level so that, e.g. you pay flat €50k in taxes if your car costs more than €50k. You can play even the safety card here: more expensive cars have more advanced automation and safety…

I like cars and make quite a decent salary, and I still drive a 17 year old Peugeot with 330k miles simply because I am not willing to pay the tax on the kind of car I actually want.

Re: Soon, Cars in Denmark Will Only Be Taxed at 100% (2017)

#59

Post by charlesdm »

martinmunk wrote: post #49
mortenjorck wrote: post #10

I was quite surprised to click through and read that this is a decrease and not an increase in the tax rate on cars. Which makes me wonder: What about the Danish political climate enabled the original 180% rate to make it into law?

Had to check up on Wikipedia. It was set to 180% in 1977, with no real reason. I'm pretty sure it was meant as temporary. But yeah the fact that we have no real lobby apart from dealers and the car owners association. That and the fact that quite a lot of people hate cars. Being from the rural parts of Denmark where cars are a nessesity and moving to the second biggest city in the contry was quite a shock to me. The…

Should charge them a moving fee, with a 180% tax on top. :)
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