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Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

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Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#21

Post by thenduks »

Kadin wrote: post #6

Seems like it might be biting off a bit more than they can chew. Given the choice between the service Spamhaus' list provides, and being able to receive mail from what's undoubtedly one of the largest webmail providers in the world ( the biggest?), a lot of people are going to can Spamhaus. I'd hope that Google will react by doing something about the spam, but they could much more easily do nothing, put out some reco…

Google isn't even close to the biggest email provider (by some sources both Yahoo and Microsoft are more than twice their size)... but your point stands :)

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#22

Post by jmathai »

tptacek wrote: post #5
jmathai wrote: post #4

I work at Yahoo! and we've been blacklisted as well by Spamhaus. I wouldn't say it's entirely inappropriate because of the sheer volume of email that can pass through our (or in this case Gmail's) system. Personally, I've tried to reach out to Google regarding security issues on blogspot which were affecting our property. There was an XSS vulnerability and we were getting thousands of posts on our blog linking to blo…

If you blacklist the mechanism by which tens of percentage points worth of Internet users send mail, you are not part of the solution to spam.

True. I agree that it's a really clumsy "solution" - if you even want to call it that. I know for us it expedites our efforts to remedy our part of the problem.

Not the right motivation and perhaps more harm than good but I'm not 100% sure.

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#23

Post by jmathai »

dingdingding wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you blacklist the mechanism by which tens of percentage points worth of Internet users send mail, you are not part of the solution to spam.

I know the google fanboys will hate this, but the problem is letting just anyone or just any machine create an account and use your service. It's google's responsibility to can the spam coming from their domain. Google doesn't care though. If they make it harder to get a gmail account, then they make it harder to spam their "legitimate" users with advertisements and why would they want to do that? If you are a compan…

TLDR; It's a tough problem to which I have no suggestions.

It's not just Google. Trust me when I say that combating spam is a full time ongoing job that never ever ends and you never ever win.

I do agree that it's the responsibility of the email provider to mitigate spam but it's an incredibly difficult task to accomplish with near zero false positives.

Perhaps Google could do a better job but restricting the "open" nature of signing up for and using email is not the solution. If Google does that then someone else will offer it unrestricted.

It's simply too cheap for spammers to send emails. Identifying usage patterns and rate limiting or gasp charging based on them would be a step in the right direction. But that means losing users which in itself has tremendous cost.

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#25

Post by bmm6o »

dingdingding wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you blacklist the mechanism by which tens of percentage points worth of Internet users send mail, you are not part of the solution to spam.

I know the google fanboys will hate this, but the problem is letting just anyone or just any machine create an account and use your service. It's google's responsibility to can the spam coming from their domain. Google doesn't care though. If they make it harder to get a gmail account, then they make it harder to spam their "legitimate" users with advertisements and why would they want to do that? If you are a compan…

> Fine, maybe so, but if you are someone who uses gmail, you are surrounded by a cadre of spammers and should understand your credibility is instantly devalued.

"My credibility"? When I send my mom an email, I expect her to get it. When she sends me one, I expect to get it.

>Birds of a feather flock together.

Yes, because I am a spammer.

If gmail has a lot of spammers using their service, they should address this. But the suggestion that those caught in the crossfire should know better is one of the more frustrating things about black-listers.

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#26

Post by scott_s »

dingdingding wrote: post #17
tptacek wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you blacklist the mechanism by which tens of percentage points worth of Internet users send mail, you are not part of the solution to spam.

I know the google fanboys will hate this, but the problem is letting just anyone or just any machine create an account and use your service. It's google's responsibility to can the spam coming from their domain. Google doesn't care though. If they make it harder to get a gmail account, then they make it harder to spam their "legitimate" users with advertisements and why would they want to do that? If you are a compan…

You get spam in your inbox? I see maybe one a month. Gmail filters it for me.

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#28

Post by auxbuss »

furyg3 wrote: post #14

Spamhaus is the most rabid group of extreme anti-spammer teenagers out there (or at least they act like teenagers). I've had various SMTP servers (for various companies) blocked by them, usually for very questionable reasons. You used to have to argue with them on their forum (and take a beating from all of the kids on that site) before they'd remove you. The result is that SMTP admins get it from both sides: Spammer…

Google are no better.

I can't send email to gmail addresses -- well sometimes I can and sometimes I can't -- because Google (sometimes) says of my server:

  Our system has detected an unusual rate of
    550-5.7.1 unsolicited mail originating from your IP address. To protect our
    550-5.7.1 users from spam, mail sent from your IP address has been blocked.
This is complete bullshit. We have SPFs in DNS. We don't relay, and have had this independently tested.

We send tiny amounts (3 or 4 a week) of mainly personal email to gmail addresses.

Who do I contact to sort this? Who knows? Google has no point of contact.

So I'm happy for Google to have a taste of their own medicine. And my opinion of them is a rabid group of extreme anti-spammer teenagers.

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#29

Post by [deleted] »

bmm6o wrote: post #25
dingdingding wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the google fanboys will hate this, but the problem is letting just anyone or just any machine create an account and use your service. It's google's responsibility to can the spam coming from their domain. Google doesn't care though. If they make it harder to get a gmail account, then they make it harder to spam their "legitimate" users with advertisements and why would they want to do that? If you are a compan…

> Fine, maybe so, but if you are someone who uses gmail, you are surrounded by a cadre of spammers and should understand your credibility is instantly devalued. "My credibility"? When I send my mom an email, I expect her to get it. When she sends me one, I expect to get it. >Birds of a feather flock together. Yes, because I am a spammer. If gmail has a lot of spammers using their service, they should address this. Bu…

[deleted]

Re: Gmail blacklisted by Spamhaus

#30

Post by tptacek »

ryanjmo wrote: post #16
tptacek wrote: post #2

... but wholesale DNS-based blacklisting could never blow up in our faces. Noooooo sir.

What do you mean by 'wholesale DNS-based blacklisting'?

Paul Vixie has proposed an extension to the DNS that would have relay cache servers (the servers you ask for generic name lookups) store blacklists of evil domains. Anything blacklisted would, in effect, disappear from the Internet (for normal users).
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