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Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

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Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#511

Post by Eire_Banshee »

opportune wrote: post #195
hprotagonist wrote: post #15

on realpolitik grounds, Indianapolis would be a fascinating choice.

The main problem with some of these cities, Indianapolis in particular, is that it might be hard to attract software developers to go live there. Even though the dollar goes farther in Indianapolis, after adjusting for cost of living, you would still need to add a bonus to entice developers to live there rather than Seattle. I grew up near Indianapolis and I certainly would not live there over Seattle, for political/…

As a software engineer in Indy, a lot of us have the opposite opinion.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#512

Post by ameister14 »

mark-r wrote: post #493
OrwellianChild wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to know why this is getting downvoted... The reasoning here is sound - jobs create economic growth. These governments are forgoing a portion of the tax income that currently does not exist but would be gained by Amazon's arrival in exchange for getting Amazon to come in the first place . This is not an Olympic Games or a sports stadium that benefits very few individuals economically. This is a pro…

The problem is that government expenses go up with Amazon's arrival as well. If we assume the taxes paid by other businesses fairly represent their load, then Amazon will be a burden overall by avoiding those taxes. That growth from other businesses will be needing services as well, and the tax from that growth won't cover everybody.

That's balanced by the increase in tax base from 50,000 jobs and investment of billions in the local community.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#513

Post by ynniv »

sf_rob wrote: post #405
droopybuns wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I saw Atlanta on the list, I felt that it's over. The rail system is far superior to what exists in Seattle & should support reasonable suburban commutes. Georgia Tech's talent supply makes it interesting, but I get the impression that Amazon hires people with more experience than just straight out of college.

> The rail system is far superior to what exists in Seattle & should support reasonable suburban commutes Atlanta has a relatively poor transit system compared to many other cities on the list. The bus system isn't great and MARTA (trains) is quite limited. I left before the beltline was built out, so maybe things are getting better.

Only the more expensive ones (Chicago, DC, NYC, and Boston), and Philadelphia. If transit is important, Atlanta is actually in a better position than the closer competition (Austin or Raleigh).

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#514

Post by mathperson »

klipt wrote: post #350
ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

> while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return. Does Pennsylvania have no income, property or sales tax?

the whole point of the amazon bidding process is to induce competition between cities to give amazon exemptions and tax breaks-Philadelphia/Pennsylvania will probably benefit on the whole if they were chosen...but the size of that benefit would depend substantially on the terms they offer amazon.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#515

Post by biocomputation »

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

Seattle native who feels the exact same way about Seattle as you do about Philadelphia.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#516

Post by ynniv »

ng-user wrote: post #427
drumttocs8 wrote: post #249

Amazon would have the greatest impact in Atlanta. You could argue that Atlanta is the economic, cultural, and geographical center of the Southeastern United States. It has the busiest airport in the world and is a major rail hub. There are already dozens of major corporations headquaratered in Atlanta. There is no shortage of talent, with a top-5 engineering school in Georgia Tech. Yet there are things missing which…

Do you have sources for the claim that ATL is the busiest airport in the world? Just curious because I've never heard this before.

Only for the last 20 years - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#517

Post by devdas »

lloyd-christmas wrote: post #425
wfo wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just an aside, Trump supporters are NOT poor or the working class, this is a myth. The poor are non-voters and if they vote it's mostly Democrat by and large. Trump voters for the most part were middle class suburbanites or exburbanites.

Do you have a source for this? Historically, republican voters are both poorer and less educated (which in and of itself has class implications). However, none of those demographics are relevant if they are all located in solid red states. Given that most people seem to attribute the swing state losses to the 'we need jobs' votes coming from the manufacturing and steel industries, the swing implies it's due to jobles…

Didn't the swing states also demand IDs which democratic supporters would not have?

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#518

Post by ameister14 »

adamc wrote: post #481
OrwellianChild wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to know why this is getting downvoted... The reasoning here is sound - jobs create economic growth. These governments are forgoing a portion of the tax income that currently does not exist but would be gained by Amazon's arrival in exchange for getting Amazon to come in the first place . This is not an Olympic Games or a sports stadium that benefits very few individuals economically. This is a pro…

I didn't downvote it, but you omit an import issue: Amazon coming will also increase expenses for the city -- police, fire protection, sewers, etc. Tax revenue exists to pay for these things. It is not unreasonable to worry about whether the net effect of giving big tax breaks and bringing in a company like Amazon will be negative.

Half of Philadelphia's General Fund revenue comes from wage taxes. That ends up being 1/6th of the budget of Philadelphia and 2/7 of the revenue for the city.

While it isn't unreasonable to worry that the net effect of lowering the business income and real estate taxes applied to Amazon would result in a negative tax/expense ratio, when applied holistically and including the other taxes, it's also not unreasonable to think the city revenue will increase, particularly when you add in related businesses.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#519

Post by swerling »

From wsj.com:

"...some site-selection experts to speculate Mr. Bezos may choose a location where an influx of workers could help promote political change..."

Playing with that notion.

Premise: 50k tech workers would have more impact on US politics if: 1) added to U.S. cities; 2) added to cities in states with smaller populations. (Debatable premise(s), but just go with it).

Below is trimmed down version of the original list of 20 with that in mind, sorted by lowest population. Cities in states where 50k would be 

  Place:  50k/State Pop (as %)
  ------------------------------------------

  Denver: 1.00%
  Nashville: 0.77%
  Northern Virginia: 0.63%
  Atlanta: 0.50%
  Raleigh: 0.50%
  Columbus: 0.45%
(50k would be about 7.35% of Washington DC, which I edited out, but put back in after seeing a reply to this post)

(list of cities and quote above from https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-narrows-choices-for-seco...)

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#520

Post by closeparen »

wfo wrote: post #402
wyattk wrote: post #126

Something about this just makes my stomach sick... A massive corporation is pitting governments against each other for its own gain, often to no benefit of the local population. I'm scared to see the numbers of "incentives" that local politicians try and hand out to Amazon. There's little evidence that the public money used/lost will ever be recouped. One of the worst cases of this happening so far is the Foxconn dea…

It is terrifying how this power is being wielded. Cities try to compete to see who can be more obsequious and subservient to corporate interests in the hope that they win some "victory" -- the company moving to their town -- which in the end does very little for the actual city or the people in it. It is just an impressive line item on the mayor's resume when they try to move up in politics, "I got Amazon!" Seattle h…

TIL software engineers aren’t actual residents of the places we live.
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