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Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

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Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#491

Post by astrodust »

prklmn wrote: post #261
gumby wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas.

They won't do this after getting bids from numerous American cities. To choose a city in Canada would piss off too much of their customer base, including the president of the country, and would have a long term material impact on sales.

How many Americans are "pissed off" that their American cars are made in Canada?

They don't even know where their stuff is made any more. Toyota makes cars in Kentucky, Texas, Indiana, Alabama, West Virgina and Mississippi, but they're an "import". Ford makes vehicles in Mexico and Canada but they're "domestic".

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#492

Post by selectodude »

mindcrime wrote: post #474
selectodude wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other than Au Cheval, they’re just all pretty average places, I guess. Chicago has the best food scene in the country, I just haven’t ever equated Petterinos, which is considered a mediocre place that has a good pre-theater show menu, with that scene.

I've never heard anybody describe Lao Sze Chuan as "average" before. Petterino's... I like them a lot in general, but one thing in particular about them stands out to me: the Midwest Corn Chowder. Funny thing to fixate on I guess, but I fell in love with that the first time I was there. Food taste is pretty subjective though... and also consider that while I've spent a lot of time in Chicago for work, I never lived t…

The guy who started Lao is in jail for tax fraud which has really torpedoed the place. It’s not nearly as good as it used to be.

Granted, I think the Chinese food here by and large sucks.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#493

Post by mark-r »

OrwellianChild wrote: post #469
mozumder wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not enough for government to sit back and assume tax dollars are going to cover economic growth. Government needs to be active in participating in growth, and that includes understanding what businesses need from their business plans and assisting them in becoming successful - from startups to large businesses. Jobs are the goal for this competition. They're the prize. Be thankful that governments are participat…

I would really like to know why this is getting downvoted... The reasoning here is sound - jobs create economic growth. These governments are forgoing a portion of the tax income that currently does not exist but would be gained by Amazon's arrival in exchange for getting Amazon to come in the first place . This is not an Olympic Games or a sports stadium that benefits very few individuals economically. This is a pro…

The problem is that government expenses go up with Amazon's arrival as well. If we assume the taxes paid by other businesses fairly represent their load, then Amazon will be a burden overall by avoiding those taxes. That growth from other businesses will be needing services as well, and the tax from that growth won't cover everybody.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#494

Post by thrden »

speby wrote: post #341
slg wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm scared to see the numbers of "incentives" that local politicians try and hand out to Amazon. There's little evidence that the public money used/lost will ever be recouped. It is a classic example of the winner's curse[1]. If Amazon is auctioning off the HQ for tax breaks, the government that wins is likely going to overestimate the value that winning the bid will provide. Those odds greatly increase when you thr…

Yep, this is a common case with everyone's favorite repeat offender: Which city gets to host the Olympics? And that has been shown, time and again, to be a huge money loser and not at all something that invigorates the economy or somehow makes a city "more legit" in the global sphere. It is, at best, symbolic and at worst, charitable [on the part of the host city].

While that's generally been true on a global level, the olympics have generally been profitable endeavors for American host cities. the 1984, '96 and '02 all turned a profit for host cities.[1] Further, if olympic upgrades are done responsibly the games can act as a subsidy for local improvements to mass transit, universities and other civic spaces even if the city doesn't turn a profit.

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_the_Olympic_Games

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#495

Post by agentultra »

chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

The problem I'd see with putting a campus in Toronto would be that the transit infrastructure is bursting at the seams. Underfunded public transportation, expensive and underfunded regional transportation, and congestion along all major routes during the day. Along with the sky-rocketing cost of living there you'd filter out a lot of candidates or force people to commute over long distances on a choked network.

YYZ is a decent airport but it doesn't compare to ATL or ORD.

> - a strong existing tech workforce and universities

I'm not saying those of us who stayed North of the border aren't great but a large portion of our talent does head South for the opportunities. Funded technology companies in Canada are hard to come by. A good 80% of the jobs here are for digital agencies. Even Google and Microsoft keep most their technology jobs mostly South of the border despite all of the incentives they're courted with.

Immigration in Canada is a lot more friendly but I don't think that's going to out-weigh the benefits of the other cities listed. My money is on ATL or ORD.

update: 80% is just a rough guess

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#496

Post by appstateguy »

aceinaday wrote: post #415
femto113 wrote: post #386

My money is on one of Nashville, Indianapolis or Columbus with Pittsburgh as a dark horse. Amazon is going to be looking to build a major campus (say 5-10 big buildings) right in the center of town (as they've done here in Seattle) and that's just not feasible in expensive cities like LA, Boston, NYC, Chicago or DC. Denver is too far west, Miami, Atlanta and Raleigh too far southeast. Newark and Philadelphia don't ha…

Too far southeast?

There really has been some prejudiced undertones in this thread that belittle the southeast.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#497

Post by quacker »

selectodude wrote: post #438
philipodonnell wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seattle is a pretty large city. It definitely had an extremely large effect. As I understand it from stories people told me when I lived there for a few years, South Lake Union was a lower-rent district near the lake where younger single people lived that weren't attracted to the lifestyle on Capitol Hill but didn't make enough to live downtown proper or on Queen Anne or Magnolia hills. Now those people commute 45 mi…

Seattle metro is a little larger than the city of Chicago. It is not a large city by any metric.

Seattle is large by the metric of population (it's the 18th most populous city in the US). San Francisco actually has smaller land area, and higher population - but I definitely consider San Francisco to be a large city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_b...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#498

Post by ameister14 »

alistairSH wrote: post #462
SaintGhurka wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think they wouldn't hire current residents? Isn't this supposed to be a whole new HQ? I thought they had said it would be 50,000 NEW jobs. Philadelphia has a 6% unemployment rate. Don't you think HQ2 might drive that down some? Here in Dallas, there has been a stream of companies moving headquarters in from out of state. Even though they are bringing their people with them, they wind up scouring the landsc…

Philly doesn't have 50,000 skilled, but unemployed, residents waiting around for Amazon. Sure, some locals will quit their jobs and work for Amazon. And some may come off the unemployment list. But, the majority will need to be brought into the area, which causes congestion, drives up real estate values and rent, etc.

It also increases the money available for restaurants and entertainment, local purchases and shopping - creating local jobs for less skilled and unemployed people.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#499

Post by hylianwarrior »

softawre wrote: post #444
opportune wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with some of these cities, Indianapolis in particular, is that it might be hard to attract software developers to go live there. Even though the dollar goes farther in Indianapolis, after adjusting for cost of living, you would still need to add a bonus to entice developers to live there rather than Seattle. I grew up near Indianapolis and I certainly would not live there over Seattle, for political/…

I also grew up in Indianapolis and still live here. There are only a few tech companies that will pay engineers 150k+ but they do exist, and 150k+ in the suburbs here (Hamilton County) buys a very nice life for somebody wanting to raise a family.

I grew up in Hamilton county / Indy. There has been lots of growth just within the last 5 years after Salesforce and some other companies moved in. There's a rapidly growing population of younger people and new attractions to meet the demand created by these businesses.

I'm not sure how we would scale for HQ2, however, but I believe it could be done.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#500

Post by [deleted] »

apcragg wrote: post #395
joekrill wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just because the DC area is so spread out. You don't really have to be in DC "proper" to get the benefits of the area. Which I think is different than a lot of other major metro areas. You see the same thing with New York paired with Newark.

An Amazon HQ2 in Northern Virginia would cripple the already strained road infrastructure, especially given Metro's existing difficulties. Dulles seems like an obvious choice given the tech corridor and proximity to IA but 28 and the toll road are incredibly crowded as it is.

[deleted]
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