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Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

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Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#471

Post by moron4hire »

klipt wrote: post #350
ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

> while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return. Does Pennsylvania have no income, property or sales tax?

Philadelphia is a deeply corrupt city. It doesn't matter how much money it is given, it will never be enough.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#472

Post by quacker »

jamestimmins wrote: post #316
Bhilai wrote: post #307

I totally support this move by Amazon and Apple. My hope is Microsoft/Google/Facebook would follow. There is a desperate need for larger tech companies to move away from Bay Area/Seattle and expand into other cities which actually may have cheaper housing and where life may not feel such a challenge, specially for folks with dependents and families.

That's why I hope they don't go to the obvious cities that already have high rents (New York, Austin, Chicago). They could make an enormous, positive impact on many smaller cities, or could do damage to already expensive ones.

> cities that already have high rents (New York, Austin, Chicago)

I was curious about this. I live in Austin, and don't think the rent is particularly high there. I just wanted some data. Looking at rent prices on one website in particular (https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Austin) and using Austin as the baseline:

Less expensive candidate cities:

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 43.54% higher than in Columbus, OH

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 40.87% higher than in Indianapolis, IN

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 34.51% higher than in Raleigh, NC

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 26.93% higher than in Pittsburgh, PA

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 24.66% higher than in Newark, NJ

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 18.86% higher than in Dallas, TX

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 9.24% higher than in Atlanta, GA

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 7.51% higher than in Toronto

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 5.29% higher than in Nashville, TN

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 4.49% higher than in Philadelphia, PA

More expensive candidate cities:

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 6.64% lower than in Denver, CO

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 10.82% lower than in Chicago, IL

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 20.41% lower than in Miami, FL

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 26.91% lower than in Los Angeles, CA

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 31.45% lower than in Washington, DC

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 36.17% lower than in Boston, MA

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 49.78% lower than in New York, NY

- Rent Prices in Austin, TX are 56.44% lower than in San Francisco, CA

Here's a sortable table of various indexes: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/region_rankings.jsp?ti...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#473

Post by otoburb »

Tsarbomb wrote: post #264
keiraarts wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, would the exchange rate for USD to CAD be a great advantage for Amazon?

It would be an incredible advantage. Salaries are already lower when compared with the other major North American tech centers. Add the exchange rate into the mix and Amazon's money will go a long way.

Not only salaries and the exchange rate, but total compensation (of which healthcare is a big chunk) is lower for Canadian employees because healthcare is funded by the Canadian federal and provincial governments[1].

[1] https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#474

Post by mindcrime »

selectodude wrote: post #465
mindcrime wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an odd list of restaurants. Oh? How so? On a related (sad) note, at least two restaurants in Chicago that I used to love are closed now: Bombay Spice, and Dragon Ranch Moonshine & BBQ. That and the Resa's location near River North. :-(

Other than Au Cheval, they’re just all pretty average places, I guess. Chicago has the best food scene in the country, I just haven’t ever equated Petterinos, which is considered a mediocre place that has a good pre-theater show menu, with that scene.

I've never heard anybody describe Lao Sze Chuan as "average" before.

Petterino's... I like them a lot in general, but one thing in particular about them stands out to me: the Midwest Corn Chowder. Funny thing to fixate on I guess, but I fell in love with that the first time I was there.

Food taste is pretty subjective though... and also consider that while I've spent a lot of time in Chicago for work, I never lived there, and there are a lot of local restaurants there that I haven't eaten at. More than the ones I have, I'm sure. Which to me, is just more proof of just how awesome the food scene there is. :-)

I'll always try and visit Chicago when I can, and if I ever got "IPO exit rich" maybe I'd maintain a second home there. I just can't do the winters or maybe I'd consider moving permanently. :-(

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#475

Post by OrwellianChild »

jimmywanger wrote: post #357
ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

If you think that attracting high numbers of highly educated and wealthy people into a moribound city is not going to increase property taxes and the existing tax base, I don't know what to say, especially since you (or anybody outside of Philly or Amazon) know what the concessions are, I don't know what to say. If the concession was only to take 1% off the tax bill for Amazon, it'd definitely be a good idea. If it w…

In the spirit of a constructive dialog, why is this getting downvoted? @jimmywanger is making good points that address the real, positive impacts of attracting an HQ2-level project.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#476

Post by pzone »

ForrestN wrote: post #245

It's interesting how little culture figures in to this conversation. It seems to me that the North and the South (Canada aside) are drastically different in ways that will really matter to a lot of people. I don't work at Amazon, but my family and I would not feel fully safe or comfortable living in Texas, Tennessee, Georgia or North Carolina.

All these locations are major cities, bright blue on the electoral map (or at least purple) and cosmopolitan. Get your FUD out of here - the South isn't a bunch of hicks and white supremacists.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#477

Post by GVIrish »

dghughes wrote: post #418
ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

Your comment reminds me sports stadiums being built millions spent for rich professional sports teams. I'm not into sports at all it seems unusual to build what to me seems like a church for worshippers of team X. I'm all for being active but professional sports these days seems like they are a religion.

Agreed. My thing is, if a sports stadium is gonna be built with public money, it should belong to the public and the team owner should have to pay rent and/or revenue share. Otherwise, why should a billionaire (or group of wealthy people) get a taxpayer-funded stadium for them to print money with?

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#478

Post by unexpected »

txsh wrote: post #303
unexpected wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see Amazon moving to Austin. Austin is a very popular "2nd Campus" for tech companies, but it's not a great "HQ". 1) Poor airport connectivity 2) Seriously bad traffic options, with limited ability for build out 3) Not a lot of great public transit options 4) Limited ability for free land/property tax abatements/government handouts Austin is a strong candidate because of UT Austin, but UT Austin students prim…

On the other hand Austin is the headquarters of Whole Foods Market which owns a lot of real estate. Until recently they built stores with cash and often owned the shopping centers their stores were built in. Texas has no state income tax which wouldn’t be a public reason for the choice but is obviously going to be a factor. Austin is also a good culture fit with Seattle and is a startup hub.

I'm from Texas; I live in Dallas. I think Dallas is a much stronger option than Austin.

Building a grocery store is far different than building a corporate campus. The interesting thing is that Amazon already has a presence in a lot of these cities, so they're intimately familiar with the day to day workings. There's not going to be any "sugar coating" by city officials.

1) Austin - Whole Foods 2) Newark - Audible 3) Dallas - HUGE Amazon logistics hub 4) NoVa - AWS location

and on, and on, and on.

Austin has horrible traffic issues right now - look at the other guys on this thread that are from Austin. None of them are eager to have Amazon move there. I would welcome Amazon with open arms.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#479

Post by dragonwriter »

OrwellianChild wrote: post #464
dragonwriter wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Philadelphia has a 6% unemployment rate. Don't you think HQ2 might drive that down some? It might drive it up , if the tax incentives and other provisions required to secure it mean it's not paying for it's fair share of shared infrastructure, so that either overall infrastructure crumbles or is paid for by others (through higher overall taxes), either of which can drive other businesses away.

I'm sorry, but this is economically faulty reasoning... Intensification of development creates external growth. More people making more money on new jobs and spending it into the economy boosts everyone else. You are conflating concerns about infrastructure (which is a government expenditure) with job growth. HQ2 in Philly (or anywhere else) would add to government coffers, both directly (from wage tax, etc.) and ind…

> HQ2 in Philly (or anywhere else) would add to government coffers

Only necessarily true if you assume there are no government costs in attracting it; but, yes, it's probably at least a slight net gain in tax revenue because the incentives alone probably don't directly outweigh the revenue.

They might, however, when you add in the induced capital (for utility extensions, roads, etc.) and maintenance (for both the new and existing facilities induced by increased utilization from the HQ).

And if that's the case, there are either reduced expenditures relative to the level of need or increased taxes as a result of the incentives to Amazon, and those absolutely can drive away other businesses.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#480

Post by astrodust »

otoburb wrote: post #460
gumby wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas.

>> My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas. But non-Canadian staff still need to obtain Canadian visas. I'm not sure how much easier (or not) that process is compared to the TN or H1B lottery.

It's pretty easy. If you're technically skilled and can speak English and/or French they pretty much rubber-stamp you.
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