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Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

bradfrost.com

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Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#241

Post by fixermark »

turc1656 wrote: post #210

Serious question for the HN community - why do you leave your GPS on/activated by default? I have mine disabled unless I specifically need it for something, which is rare. Usually the only time I ever need GPS is for driving instructions. Otherwise, it's off. GPS is also the biggest battery hog on the device. Why would you leave this on? Do you all use it far more frequently or was it something you never thought to s…

I leave it on because I don't care if the various systems I'm plugged into know where I am. On balance, I'd rather the infrastructure have less difficulty finding me if I crash my car in a ditch than be anonymous when I'm off doing my nobody-cares-what-I-am-doing. ;)

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#242

Post by newen »

nkurz wrote: post #228
turc1656 wrote: post #210

Serious question for the HN community - why do you leave your GPS on/activated by default? I have mine disabled unless I specifically need it for something, which is rare. Usually the only time I ever need GPS is for driving instructions. Otherwise, it's off. GPS is also the biggest battery hog on the device. Why would you leave this on? Do you all use it far more frequently or was it something you never thought to s…

Good comment. Might be worth mentioning that turning GPS off reduces the accuracy of your location, but does not prevent it from being known: https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/21/16684818/google-location... GPS is also the biggest battery hog on the device. I'd be surprised that this is true. I used several battery monitor apps on several phones, and never found this to the case. It's a simple receiver, and doesn't re…

Maps is a huge battery hog in Android. I've always attributed that to the GPS since I basically only use GPS for maps.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#243

Post by fixermark »

geofft wrote: post #64
chrisfosterelli wrote: post #15

The idea that you'd have any location privacy while carrying around a cell phone is absurd. Both iPhone and Android devices record location history, and your network provider always has a rough guess of where you are. It may be annoying that Google is very persistent about trying to build its maps dataset, but the suggestion that it's not happening on other devices is crazy.

There's a huge and meaningful distinction about the technical ability to violate your privacy, and actually doing so, and trust (slash non-creepiness) is largely about not doing so when you could. For instance, the fact that my roommate can open my bedroom door at any time does not mean that I have no privacy when making phone calls in my room; it means that I have privacy because I trust my roommate not to do so, ex…

> and certainly there is nothing in the iPhone ecosystem where they want you to contribute reviews or human analysis to help them with gathering data

... but as a result, they are, perhaps, unable to deliver the product Google can. Consider [https://www.justinobeirne.com/google-maps-moat; previously discussed in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15965653]

... which is fine; Apple doesn't need to be in the business of providing the best mapping software available on a smartphone. But Google appears to be in that business.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#244

Post by jrochkind1 »

geofft wrote: post #163
jrochkind1 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

true enough! Just good to know what data is where and accessible by whom. I am pleased that the publicity (mainly from Snowden release) has led some businesses to fight subpoenas and/or warrants in court. I definitely don't count on them to keep doing it, pretty easy for them to silently comply (even _without_ a warrant/subpoena) without publicity, as most everyone has generally done until recently (and I suspect sti…

I mean, I'm also less worried about attacks by the government than attacks by private corporations. The government literally has a monopoly on violence. If they want me to have a bad day, I will have a bad day and there's nothing I can do about it. But there are lots of other threats worth protecting myself against.

a subpoena can of course from a private entity as part of a lawsuit.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#245

Post by throwanem »

saulrh wrote: post #42

I'm going to be completely honest here: If these things were behind a configuration option and defaulted to off, I'd have gone into my phone and turned that option on. I want to leave reviews for restaurants as I'm walking out of them - it serves the common good and doing it immediately is better for memory. I want to remember to download offline maps when I'm about to go somewhere where I won't have coverage. My mem…

> it serves the common good

No, it serves Google.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#246

Post by fixermark »

cryptoz wrote: post #119
koyote wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't see a use-case for A from the consumer perspective. Why would anyone ever want such a notification? For case B we can see where scraping all this information can be genuinely useful.

> I really don't see a use-case for A from the consumer perspective. Why would anyone ever want such a notification? Most people don't, but it's a game of numbers. If everyone gets the notification, then 0.01% start taking photos and populate Google Maps with the largest, live-est dataset of restaurant and business information in the world. Then all the consumers get access to this information in a nice format in the…

And, honestly, I'm not even sure they've miscalculated. It's bothered this one developer enough to write a blog post about it, and several other people on HN agree with that sentiment, but I think more data is needed before we reject a null hypothesis that the dominant user response is "Don't really care one way or the other."

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#247

Post by fixermark »

trqx wrote: post #75

Yet the author attempts to shove google js down our throats. https://i.imgur.com/6AJLhnR.png

... while complaining about Google being creepy, nonetheless.

So "Creepy, but not SO creepy that I won't trust them to vend code that I'll direct my readers' user agents to download", then. ;)

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#248

Post by fixermark »

JepZ wrote: post #53

Yeah, Google could still be the cool company they were around 2000, if they just were not so greedy about collecting data for their Advertising business... Another thing is that every time you start using an Android phone, all Google sync services are activated. So you have no chance to disable them until its too late and Google uploaded all your contacts into their cloud. That should be illegal.

I'm not sure why people think the data is being collected for advertising, as opposed to, say, improving the ground-truth on the Google Maps dataset.

I've contributed some images to the photo request. They end up appearing in Maps as the picture of the establishment.

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#249

Post by roma1n »

ucaetano wrote: post #217
roma1n wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an open question that Google could solve by providing said option. One dollar a month for the complete suite of google tools with no tracking or ads whatsoever? Sign me up, right now. I pay 10x that amount to Spotify for a decent but less useful service. Hell, I'll go to $2/month.

> That's an open question that Google could solve by providing said option. One dollar a month for the complete suite of google tools with no tracking or ads whatsoever? "No tracking" only, not "no ads". No ads would be far more expensive. But you can actually do it: buy a corporate account from them and then use an ad blocker. As simple as that. Now go and put your money where your mouth is :)

Why would it be more expensive? Google's annual revenue is 13 billion for around 1.3 billion users. That is $10 per user per year or less than $1 per user per month. Google certainly has a rationale for not providing a subscription option, but it is not 'raw revenue'

Re: Google, You Creepy Sonofabitch

#250

Post by beat »

darkerside wrote: post #197
beat wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me uncomfortably of someone I saw yesterday arguing that you shouldn't get a flu shot because it makes your immune system lazy. Memory is complicated and difficult. It can be trained, but we only have so much bandwidth for it. It's very nice to have automation to "remember" for us, so we can stop wasting that limited bandwidth on things that don't much matter, like details of our dinner experience, and s…

> things that don't much matter, like details of our dinner experience Really???

Can you remember details of what you ate for dinner two weeks ago? Probably not. That's because it's not very important.

On the other hand, I can remember one meal I ate several years ago in great detail, because it had three of the best dishes of their type I've ever had (sashimi, pasta, and ice cream in one meal!). That meal mattered. But I'd have a hard time telling you what I ate last thursday.

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