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Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

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Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#341

Post by speby »

slg wrote: post #297
wyattk wrote: post #126

Something about this just makes my stomach sick... A massive corporation is pitting governments against each other for its own gain, often to no benefit of the local population. I'm scared to see the numbers of "incentives" that local politicians try and hand out to Amazon. There's little evidence that the public money used/lost will ever be recouped. One of the worst cases of this happening so far is the Foxconn dea…

>I'm scared to see the numbers of "incentives" that local politicians try and hand out to Amazon. There's little evidence that the public money used/lost will ever be recouped. It is a classic example of the winner's curse[1]. If Amazon is auctioning off the HQ for tax breaks, the government that wins is likely going to overestimate the value that winning the bid will provide. Those odds greatly increase when you thr…

Yep, this is a common case with everyone's favorite repeat offender: Which city gets to host the Olympics?

And that has been shown, time and again, to be a huge money loser and not at all something that invigorates the economy or somehow makes a city "more legit" in the global sphere. It is, at best, symbolic and at worst, charitable [on the part of the host city].

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#342

Post by freeone3000 »

gist wrote: post #318
gumby wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest My bet is on Toronto because they can pick up all the staff they need worldwide without the problems of trying to get US visas.

> without the problems of trying to get US visas This assumes that politicians eager to get Amazon are not able to speed up and fix that process which they certainly would be motivated to do. [1] [1] This is not 'your shitty startup with 10 employees'. It's Amazon and the brass ring.

NAFTA has a provision for no-visa entry as an "internal transfer". Having a Canadian office is not unheard-of to invoke this position, by stationing an employee they really want at a US office in a Canadian office and then transferring.

While politicians may be motivated, there's no indication they would be motivated more by THIS business than by ANY OTHER business, all of which have the same concerns, have had the same concerns for years, and immigration has generally been avoided.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#343

Post by ringtail »

drcode wrote: post #279
sweetishfish wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regards to your first point - it's not really costing taxpayers in Wisconsin $4.5B . At least for the tax credits portion, those are taxes that would not have been paid in Wisconsin otherwise.

I guess I also don't need to pay taxes anymore, because if I don't pay taxes those are just taxes that wouldn't have been paid otherwise.

Are you paying 5+ digits tax and in the process of moving ? Then yes you can get the same special treatment while paying fraction of what you used to pay.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#344

Post by chollida1 »

sol_remmy wrote: post #299
chollida1 wrote: post #3

Nice to see Toronto on the list, though game theory suggest that we're only here because having a Canadian Candidate has the potential to have all 3 levels of government involved rather than just state and city. I'm not really sure how to go about handicapping the finalists. Given the current political climate, Toronto is interesting because it's the only city that gives Amazon some escape form the US government. You…

"a strong existing tech workforce and universities" Hate to say it, but Northern Virginia and Raleigh have Toronto beat on this

You might be right, I don't know everything that is in Raliegh and Virginia.

But Toronto has perennially top 25 world ranked universities, Waterloo and Toronto.

Toronto may not be the best of these 20 cities for workforce and universities but they can more than hold their own in this regard.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#345

Post by sol_remmy »

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

> I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire people who are not currently residents, while increasing their expenses and utilizing the public services that their taxes have paid for, while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return.

If you applied these views at the federal level than you'd be anti-immigration.

It amazes me how people can be so protectionist towards their local communities for the above reasons and have totally different views at the national level

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#346

Post by seanmcdirmid »

freeone3000 wrote: post #342
gist wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without the problems of trying to get US visas This assumes that politicians eager to get Amazon are not able to speed up and fix that process which they certainly would be motivated to do. [1] [1] This is not 'your shitty startup with 10 employees'. It's Amazon and the brass ring.

NAFTA has a provision for no-visa entry as an "internal transfer". Having a Canadian office is not unheard-of to invoke this position, by stationing an employee they really want at a US office in a Canadian office and then transferring. While politicians may be motivated, there's no indication they would be motivated more by THIS business than by ANY OTHER business, all of which have the same concerns, have had the s…

The L1 already works like this, and it isn't just limited to Canada. So say you work for Microsoft China for a few years, you can then get an L1 to work in the USA, which is much easier than a H1 (no cap!).

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#347

Post by klipt »

justin66 wrote: post #129
bryanlarsen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Canadian cities were in serious competition I think there'd be more than one of them on the list. There are a good number of American cities smaller than Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa/Gatineau on the list, let alone Montreal and Vancouver. I suspect that Toronto is the token Canadian city and won't get serious consideration. I don't blame them, in this era of Trump hyper-nationalism there'd be a huge blow…

Toronto might be the token Canadian city, but it's also the strongest contender Canada has to offer, by far. I would not rule them out. > I don't blame them, in this era of Trump hyper-nationalism there'd be a huge blow-back for choosing a Canadian city. Ironically, one reason a Canadian city would offer such big advantages - immigration - is also the main reason for the Trump hyper-nationalism. That tension is inter…

And under the Trump administration, I bet a lot of liberal Americans would be interested in an opportunity to work in Canada and acquire Canadian citizenship "just in case"...

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#349

Post by plehoux »

sol_remmy wrote: post #345
ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

> I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire people who are not currently residents, while increasing their expenses and utilizing the public services that their taxes have paid for, while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return. If you applied these views at the federal level than you'd be anti-immigration. It amazes me how people can…

Immigrants pay taxes.

Re: Amazon announces candidate cities for HQ2

#350

Post by klipt »

ashelmire wrote: post #340

Part of me would love to have a big tech / infrastructure company like Amazon in Philly. But I take serious issue with the idea of the city paying millions or billions to bring them here, promising years of tax breaks (a free ride), and the tightening of an already very tight real estate and rental market. I don't think my fellow Philadelphians should have to pay to bring a company here that's just going to hire peop…

> while receiving little to no tax revenue or services in return.

Does Pennsylvania have no income, property or sales tax?

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