Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#191

Post by pdeuchler » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:33 PM UTC

prklmn wrote: post #155

IBM wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Incorrect. There is a repatriation tax holiday designed to encourage repatriation. They are not required to do so. Unfortunately, you're incorrect. https://www.pwc.com/us/en/tax-services/publications/insights...

Disregard the link with the confusing title and think critically for a moment. Do you really think the US government is forcing all companies to bring any and all profits earned and stored overseas back to the United States? That’s what you’re implying.

Where the database that holds the dollar amount is located doesn't matter, what matters is where it's taxed and where it's spent.

The US government _forced_ the companies to pay this tax, that point is irrefutable.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#192

Post by threeseed » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:33 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #162

threeseed wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pure fiction you've invented here. Apple bringing capital back to the US is solely to do with their being tax incentives to do so. Nothing more. Nothing less.

As you said, they are being incentivized to do so. It isn’t mandatory , which is what this whole argument is about. I don’t know how it’s “pure fiction” to point that out, when your own comment literally says what I have been saying.

> The fact that they are deploying that capital here indicates some level of belief that the American economy will thrive under this tax plan.

This statement is fiction. There is nothing from Apple indicating this.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#193

Post by threeseed » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:36 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #172

guyzero wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The $1B Reno datacenter expansion was announced in May of 2017. So it has nothing to do with cash repatriation really. http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2017/05/10/breaking-apple-anno...

The stock market rally started on election day. Clearly it was not based on what Trump had done, but anticipated what Trump with a GOP Congress would do. The expectation of a large corporate tax cut was certainly there throughout 2017, and may very well have had a large influence on the Reno decision.

> The expectation of a large corporate tax cut was certainly there throughout 2017

No it wasn't. Most people thought that after the health care debacle that Trump would've pivoted to infrastructure. Especially given the tax cuts were so fiscally reckless which would've alienated moderate Senators like Collins or McCain.

> and may very well have had a large influence on the Reno decision

Apple has other data centres. They were largely driven by their own needs and not to do with macro economic effects.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#194

Post by pvelagal » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #36

I find it fascinating that a tax plan proposed by a President reviled throughout the Valley is the one thing that finally convinced Apple to repatriate much of its overseas cash and invest it here in the US. They of course give no credit to him in this press release, but the proof is in the pudding. Of the many heavy handed ideas and efforts made by the previous administration to convince Apple to do this, exactly 0…

I have a question : What is the difference between Apple paying taxes to Trump's Govt, which will make sure that the funds will be used to create jobs.

Vs

Apple getting all the money and using to create jobs on its own.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#195

Post by ovao » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

colemannugent wrote: post #179

lbotos wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but imagine if instead, they gave them a raise instead of a one time bonus? That is how you actually benefit workers.

Walmart employs about 2.3 million people. At $1000 per employee that's $2,300,000,000 going back into the economy. Now, if Walmart gave everyone who worked there a $1 raise. With about 1.5 million full-time employees working around 1700 hours per year (US average 2016) that would mean about $2,550,000,000. So that bonus is almost equivalent to a temporary raise in terms of benefits. That is just for full-time employe…

Walmart has said that the bonuses will cost $400M, so that's not $2.3B going into the economy. Only some employees are eligible for a $1,000 bonus: some will receive between $200 and $1,000, and employees who earned less than $11/hour prior to the raises are not eligible for a bonus.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#196

Post by downandout » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #192

downandout wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you said, they are being incentivized to do so. It isn’t mandatory , which is what this whole argument is about. I don’t know how it’s “pure fiction” to point that out, when your own comment literally says what I have been saying.

> The fact that they are deploying that capital here indicates some level of belief that the American economy will thrive under this tax plan. This statement is fiction. There is nothing from Apple indicating this.

They are indicating it by doing it. That cash doesn't have to remain here; they simply have to pay taxes on it. The only reason that a rational corporation would keep it here is because they believe it's a good investment.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#197

Post by patall » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #42

All the comments seem to be sketpical or negative. I think it's funny if you go back right before tax reform passed and look at all the comments on articles here on HN almost all were blasting tax reform. Saying it won't work, it does not help the economy, does not create jobs, and repatriation only leads to stock buybacks and executive bonuses. So far we've seen company after company giving substantial bonuses to al…

The thing is that those values would have needed to be repatriated at some point anyways (with the added benefits for everyone). So if the repatriation tax would never have been lowered, at some point cooperations would have had to deal with it and pay. But as everyone knew that at some point in history the GOP would come in power and lower the tax, there was no incentive the repatriate with the higher burden as it was monetarily advantageous to wait. So in the end, those benefits would have happened at some point in any case, just only like this with lowered public benefit.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#198

Post by gonvaled » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:49 PM UTC

axau wrote: post #186

lbrdn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it a straw man? Maybe it's the right way to go. I honestly don't know. My point is that encouraging a behavior where the country sets a rate, then many celebrate the reduction because they get a short term gain, risks leading the US farther down a path that neglects its obligations.

Because the US is not going “down a path that neglects its obligations”. In fact quite the opposite since it just got a massive tax revenue increase. So comparing it to a situation where the US decided to just stop levying tax doesn’t make sense.

It legislated a reduction in tax revenue hoping / pretending that an increase in economic activity will offset the reduction.

Fact 1: reduced tax rate and revenue

Fact 2: permanent beneffit to corporations, in the form of tax reductions

Bet 1: the economy will grow

Bet 2: the proffits will trickle down

Bet 3: increase in economy will allow to fullfill obligations

If the bets do not materialize, nobody cares. That is, nobody except tax payers and recipients of federal promises.

Corporations and wealthy individuals will pocket proffits upfront. The rest are left praying for the bets to work out.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#199

Post by Clanan » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:50 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #148

Clanan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1,000 is not laughable to most people.

$1000 bonus is $500 after taxes. Which means, it is $40/month or $20/paycheck. It is laughable. Most employees will get $200 bonuses, which roughly will equate to $4/paycheck.

> $20/paycheck. It is laughable

And we tech people wonder why so much of the country scoffs at our echo chamber. Maybe you've never been on the lower rung of income, but an extra $40/month can be a big deal to a lot of people. Typical median household income in 2017 was $59k, so a 2% increase is meaningful.

But don't let me get in the way of your political narrative.

Re: Apple plans new U.S. campus, to pay $38B in foreign cash taxes

#200

Post by Clanan » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

pg314 wrote: post #77

Clanan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$1,000 is not laughable to most people.

If you're talking about Walmart, they announced a one-time bonus of up to $1,000. Walmart estimates that it will cost about $400 million [1], and they employ 2.3 million people [2], so the average bonus is under $200. Meanwhile Walmart will save about $1.8 billion a year in taxes, every year, thanks to the tax cut. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-11/wal-mart-... [2] https://www.google.be/search?q=…

Walmart said it's raising it's minimum wage in addition to bonuses. And there are 163 other companies giving bonuses. But sure, it would be nice for the employees if Walmart gave more of that savings to them.