How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking” • Hacker News Board

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#421

Post by upvotinglurker » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

mieseratte wrote: post #79

DiThi wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cyclists may be restricted and anything else that confuses AI drivers. I don't think that will ever happen. It may even be the opposite: AI will drive in a way it will always be able to stop if there's a possibility that there's someone behind some obstacle that may jump to the road at any moment. Worst case scenario, beacons become mandatory. Cheap and anonymous beacons you have to carry when you're near a road. S…

I cannot imagine mandatory tracking devices, anonymous or not, ever being mandatory in the United States. That would never fly.

Would a beacon have to be a personally associated tracking device? I can imagine carrying a device that just broadcasts a generic "cyclist here, moving this speed and direction" signal, without identifying or being registered to me (bought with cash)

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#422

Post by fulafel » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 2:25 PM UTC

Noos wrote: post #305

Can HN please stop it with this "not owning a car is virtuous" shtick? I went most of my younger life not having a car, only learning to drive at age 28. I lived in a new england suburb close enough to go to my work and shopping services at a ten minute walk at the time, and it still was horrid. People here don't get how limited your life is without a car. You are limited to a ten-fifteen mile radius for everything,…

Is there an argument against "not owning a car is virtuous" here? "The world owes me year round luxury climate controlled transport in Maine"? Daily private car use is nearly always ecologically unsustainable. Refraining from selfish acts, and accepting some discomfort, to benefit others is pretty close to the dictionary definition of virtuous.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#423

Post by upvotinglurker » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

pwaai wrote: post #238

mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

> Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero. What about people who genuinely love t…

As a hobbyist horseback rider, I can tell you what happened to people who genuinely love to ride horses: they became a hobby accessible to those with enough interest and money, and more common in rural areas (since as other comments have pointed out, horses - like cars - make much less sense in dense urban areas).

In my part of the rural US, one can get an isolated hour of horseback riding for $20 or so, or maintain a personal horse for a few hundred a month (if kept at a stable run as a business for that purpose; cheaper if you have your own property suitable for housing the horse).

I can see car garages and designated driving areas becoming the riding stables of the future.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#424

Post by bluGill » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 3:06 PM UTC

throwaway30yo wrote: post #396

bluGill wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous cars have a lot of data gathering sensors - even if the car doesn't know something is going on, logs of what happened will greatly aid the police in their efforts to track down the criminal. If carjacking becomes a problem the cars will figure it out and start locking all the doors. Or if the car is unoccupied, let the carjaker in, then notify the nearest police station it is coming in with a criminal.

You think an unoccupied car should have the ability to lock people in and take them to the police station?

That is a complex question. I see both sides of the issue and a lot of grey area between (I'd be shocked if I foresee even 10% of all the things philosophers will consider).

I'll just say that it is an option with some merit. Depending on the technology and the local situation I might or might not be in favor of it.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#425

Post by n4r9 » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

sagarm wrote: post #387

n4r9 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much better would be smart traffic lights that allow pedestrians or other roads to cross when there are no cars approaching for n seconds. The number of times I've waited for several minutes at a stop light in the middle of the night...

Really, pedestrians should wait indefinitely until there are no cars coming?

No; "when", not "only when".

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#426

Post by upvotinglurker » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 3:41 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #252

spaced-out wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can be avoided, but there's a cost. Wrapping food in plastic makes it easier, and thus cheaper to distribute, and vastly lowers the risk of foodborn illness. If you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear that cost in other ways. I agree that companies often avoid the negative externalities of their activities, and support things like a carbon tax to fix that. But in the case of littering, whoever create…

How exactly does wrapping potatoes and bell peppers and cucumbers individually in plastic make it easier to distribute them? As far as illness goes, any number of steps along the food distribution chain can introduce pathogens, so they still have to be cleaned, separated, prepared and stored properly, regardless of plastic use. On the other hand, if you get rid of plastic packaging, the consumer will bear the benefit…

In the case of cucumbers, it's to extend the shelf life because otherwise they very easily dehydrate through their skins[0]. (The alternative is waxing the skin.)

I've never seen an individually shrink-wrapped potato or bell pepper where I live. I do see sets of 3 large bell papers, or of a pound or two of "baby" bell papers, in a plastic bag, and don't know of any excuse for that beyond convenience.

[0] http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/featu...

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#427

Post by fiddlerwoaroof » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 4:35 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #288

nitrogen wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do I find a subway that gives me a private cabin where I can leave my things, and still find them there on the trip back?

Would a private locker at a station, do?

Not really, because then you either have to transfer your belongings from station to station or you have to return to the station with your locker.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#428

Post by TheCoelacanth » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #50

makmanalp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, we could be living in a situation where pedestrians take precedence and have right of way over cars in city streets, and the opposite in highways, which I think would be much more desirable, especially in crowded cities. Perhaps even ban cars except for abutters, commercial vehicles and emergency vehicles from the densest city center areas. God that would be a relief. edit: OK, yes, obviously you can and should…

It would be chaos. You’d have some jackass walking in the middle of the street as slow as possible, meanwhile people who actually have some place to go are all sitting around waiting on some fool who wants to play hacky-sack in the street.

That doesn't happen with sidewalks because the vast majority of people have at least a tiny bit of politeness and will make way for someone trying to get through. For the extremely rare people who wouldn't, I assume that the police would stop by and get the person to move out of the way, just as they would if people were intentionally obstructing a sidewalk.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#429

Post by mraler » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

gvozd wrote: post #217

mraler wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminded me of a Sci-Fi novel I read when I was a kid, it was a mystery with the background being a fully automated world, a fairly central point was that all vehicles were self-driving. Standing in front of cars to stop them was somewhere between a fad and a minor rebellion against the status quo. Ever since self-driving cars started being a thing I keep being reminded of this book, and am half-waiting…

Coils, by Zelazny & Saberhagen? It was first published in 1982.

Bless you, kind internet stranger! That was bugging me so much :)

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#430

Post by tasuki » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 5:43 PM UTC

ck425 wrote: post #410

Noos wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.

Can I ask what age you? You should easily be able to walk 30 min at any age short of 60, unless you have relates health issues. If you can't then you need to seriously consider improving your health.

My dad is 66 and can easily walk for hours. I think the problem here is strictly health issues, not age. (Obviously, health issues often come with age... but age itself is not the limiting factor at all!)