Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#301

Post by imtringued » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:45 AM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #238

slindz wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GB blocks are basically ready with today's hardware though the need is years out. It won't be long before TB blocks can say the same, testing is underway. Current prevailing theory in BCH land is the block size is an unnecessary hinderance, and will likely be gone in the next 18 months. Exciting times!

> GB blocks are basically ready with today's hardware What are you smoking? Even 1GB blocks would be 144GB per day of blockchain growth. You can't expect people to tolerate that kind of disk usage, let alone bandwidth.

7000 transactions per second is a lot of of data. If you're keeping history then you cannot store 4200000 transactions per 10 minutes in less than a 1GB block. The problem isn't the blocksize. The problem is that traditional blockchains grow indefinitively and keep onchain data forever.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#302

Post by averagewall » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:47 AM UTC

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #295

Still waiting for tulips to recover back to the January 1637 price.

Why not gold? It's doing fine. When do you expect that bubble will burst?

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#303

Post by imtringued » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:49 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #271

FabHK wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quantity of money is proportional to nominal GDP/velocity (in the quantity theory of money). This doesn't tell you anything about the "price of a currency" in another currency, ie the exchange rate.

So you're claiming that if Bitcoin did $1 trillion dollars worth of transactions in a year, and people held it for a year on average, that wouldn't necessarily imply a total value for all bitcoins of $1 trillion?

The total value of all bitcoins could still be $10 trillion or $100 billion.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#304

Post by averagewall » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 9:58 AM UTC

m3kw9 wrote: post #194

So let me get this straight. Gold can be compared to bitcoins in terms of scarcity and and store of value. But bitcoin itself is in practical term a proof of concept technology that is only useful when applied properly in another block chain. While gold actually has great uses. Can i say if you are investing in bitcoin, you are basically investing in equivalent a scarce physical paper with not a whole lot of use?

I hear this "no real use" a lot, but I don't think it's valid. You can put 90% of your money in bitcoin and 10% in stocks. Then you have a hybrid investment where 10% of it has real use, and the other 90% is fun investment money with almost the same returns as being 100% bitcoin. Just like with gold, if Fort Knox/etc. were all sold off and used to make computer parts and jewelry, the value of gold would collapse to some fraction of what it is now.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#305

Post by prrrnd » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:01 AM UTC

donquichotte wrote: post #12

In January 2017, Bitcoin dropped from 1176$ to 755$ (35%). Today, it's still 10 times higher than last year.

Not sure what you're implying with that statement, but past economic growth can't be used to predict the future.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#306

Post by averagewall » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:02 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #11

I am amazed at the losses given the investment advice that I was given all of two days ago from a 'bitcoin bore'. I was told to invest all I could afford in various coins buying one coin so I could then buy the others. I would have lost 30% of my money in the last 24 hours on the coins needed for the other transactions, then in those hot coins I would have lost 45% in 24 hours on one and 44% in 24 hours on the other.…

Nobody who will ever talk to you knows the future price of any cryptocurrency. All advice you get is a complete stab in the dark and you'd do just as well to ask a monkey. The market is liquid enough that any public knowledge is already incorporated into the price before you hear about it.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#307

Post by pejrich » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

defertoreptar wrote: post #183

agorabinary wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive of Buffet when his only evidence of a "bad ending" is the existence of a massive rally. The entire near-future automated economy depends on programmable money. There is literally nothing interesting happening in FinTech right now apart from the crypto space.

Why should Bitcoin cost so much just because the future may depend on it? That's a good case for why it will continue to exist, but it could also exist and do it's job at $1.00 / btc. I think it's a couple of things that Buffett is looking at. First, like gold, Bitcoin is not a business and does not produce earnings. Second, people seem to be buying it for no other reason than that they think it'll keep going up. Tha…

> but it could also exist and do it's job at $1.00 / btc.

Probably one of the stupidest comments I've read on here. You display not even a basic understanding of how Bitcoin or economics work.

If I have a successful company with 100 shares. People will want those shares which will drive the price up. To fix the price at $1.00, or to dilute shares to keep the price at $1.00 is just ridiculous.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#308

Post by madshiva » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:17 AM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #7

The last time China explicitly banned Bitcoin, it dropped by around 45% to around $6000. It went on to $20K from there. But what's different this time is that there are first time investors in millions who joined in the last 2 months. They didn't read the white paper, they didn't invest in technology, they invested for the monster returns. So I think there will be a more sell off this time before it rebounds back to…

The argument about invest on technology is totally wrong used by YouTube famous star the same was BitConnect and we see what is the situation now. Stop propaging wrong info.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#309

Post by jondubois » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:20 AM UTC

vthallam wrote: post #7

The last time China explicitly banned Bitcoin, it dropped by around 45% to around $6000. It went on to $20K from there. But what's different this time is that there are first time investors in millions who joined in the last 2 months. They didn't read the white paper, they didn't invest in technology, they invested for the monster returns. So I think there will be a more sell off this time before it rebounds back to…

Yes, big drops like this is how the cryptocurrency internet continuously rids itself of infidels and discourages people from investing too large amounts and risking too much - By encouraging people to only invest small amounts, it helps with decentralization.

Re: Bitcoin Fall Extends to 25% as Fears of Crackdown Linger

#310

Post by imtringued » Wed, Jan 17, 2018, 10:22 AM UTC

gfodor wrote: post #189

lkrubner wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the P/E ratio of Bitcoin? There is none. So there is no rational basis for any price. $1 is as valid as $1 million. There is no traditional way to analyze this investment and figure out its real worth. To the limited extent that Bitcoin helps Chinese citizens out-maneuver the capital controls that the Chinese government has tried to enforce, then it could be analyzed as a shadow of the Chinese currency, but s…

What's the "rational basis" for a specific value of the P/E ratio? There are many stocks that belong to companies that have no mechanisms in place nor could they be reasonably expected to introduce mechanisms to directly return profits to shareholders. These stocks have the same form of "intrinsic value" as gold or Bitcoin: whatever the hell the next person is willing to pay for it. Pretending that an underlying asse…

>Pretending that an underlying asset that doesn't throw off any yield or return of capital is somehow more rationally valuable than another doesn't make sense.

Lets say I have a company with 1 billion dollar worth of assets and a 100 million dollar profit per year. I have issued 100 million shares during IP. How much is a single share worth? At the very least $10.

Next year I have a 1.1 billion dollar company. How much is a single share worth? At the very least $11.

You have 1000 shares worth $11000.

I can now either pay the profit out as dividend or not. Your shares will be worth less by exactly the amount that was paid out. Your 1000 shares will be worth $10000 and you will have $1000 in cash or alternatively I don't pay out a dividend and you still have 1000 shares worth $11000.

Where did that growth come from? With a company it's easy to answer. They sold more of their existing products. Released a new product. Reduced costs through technology. We have more stuff now. Investing in a stock helps a company indirectly even if stock buybacks never happen. The company receives better lending conditions from banks.

What about cryptocurrency? A currency shouldn't move in price at all. Where did that growth come from? From other people. Nothing new was created. Existing wealth merely gets redistributed.