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Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up the definition of a "monopoly." Google is giant, sure, but it's not the only search provider, or email provider, or anything else that it does (aside from some random niche things.) And everyone has perfect freedom to switch from Google to another provider of these services, which isn't true for ISPs if only one company has fiber going to your house.

But you can always use DSP, cable, satellite, or even tether off a wireless if you don't like your home ISP. Just like you can use alternative search engines and services (even FOSS self-hosted ones) if you don't like Google.

> But you can always use DSP, cable, satellite, or even tether off a wireless if you don't like your home ISP.

You can, if you're willing to accept a second-rate experience. But avoiding that is the whole point of net neutrality enforcement.

ADSL is fundamentally unable to compete with DOCSIS or fiber; phone lines simply do not have sufficient bandwidth except over impractically short distances. Satellite can never offer acceptable latency. Cellular radio solutions exist on a spectrum where at one end they have broad coverage but horrible latency and throughput, and at the other end they can outperform DSL but only by deploying a dense enough wired backhaul network that you aren't saving much money over building out a pure wired network.

If you want 50+ MBps with low latency, there are only three viable technologies: DOCSIS over coax, short-range xDSL, or fiber. Only one of those three is currently widely deployed in the US. The latter two are available only where it is most convenient and profitable for ISPs to deploy.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#82

Am I the only person who thinks this whole approach to Net Neutrality is wrongly pursued through the FCC? Hear me out: if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum and there isn't any censorship issue at stake, if the issue is truly differential access and usage due to oligopolistic limitation, isn't it for the FTC to intervene and bust up throttling and content blocks under restrai…

Am I missing something? I thought, and I could be wrong, that this whole mess got started when they tried to establish NN through the FTC, but Verizon took them to Court on the basis that the FTC didn't have the authority to do that, and the FTC lost. Hence where we are with the FCC. If my version of reality is correct, it would seem the FCC implementation boat has sailed.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a lot of practical uses for more limited types of Internet plans being available in world of IoT, especially Can you clarify what you mean by this?

Not the parent poster, but for instance, but think having a dozen data loggers out in the field that only need to transfer a few 100k of data each day. No need for 4G or multi gigabyte packages plus hefty per-device line/access fee.

ISP: Here's a cheap IoT plan! $5 a year!

Customer: Yay I'll buy a ${Brand} IoT device.

...

Customer: ISP, why isn't my {$Brand} IoT device working on your network?

ISP: Oh you need the $150 a month add-on to support your ${Brand} IoT device because ${Business Decision}.

The benefits of net neutrality still applies to IoT devices IMHO.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#84
post #3

I wonder if the fact they bundled adware/spyware in with their browser will affect this.

If you're talking about the Mr. Robot controversy, that wasn't spyware.

Not even adware or an ad in the state it was rolled out either, as it did nothing, except checking for an about:config-flag. If you manually enabled this flag, then it would have flipped around a few words.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#85
Either you do net neutrality or you do all of the following:

1) Remove "franchises" from localities.

2) Simplify right of way provisions to allow new cable to be buried easily.

3) Companies with installed poles must allow fiber to be run across them. (If they don't like that, go underground)

4) ISP's must tell consumers in plain english what restrictions exist on their service. Bandwidth caps. Throttled or Blocked ports, protocols, and sites.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#86
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I supported them until the adware incident.

Please rethink your position. There are many people who genuinely care about freedom and privacy working at Mozilla, while at Facebook, Google, and Apple, developers are selling us out every day.

> Apple

Do you have specific examples? I don't usually see instances of Apple being more than price-gougers who do a decent job with privacy, and I'm interested in learning more.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#87

Am I the only person who thinks this whole approach to Net Neutrality is wrongly pursued through the FCC? Hear me out: if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum and there isn't any censorship issue at stake, if the issue is truly differential access and usage due to oligopolistic limitation, isn't it for the FTC to intervene and bust up throttling and content blocks under restrai…

This can only be fixed by the FTC, yes. But it's against Google's interests for antitrust law to come back into vogue, so they've put a lot of money into getting folks on board with the FCC, which doesn't have jurisdiction over Google, being in charge. In fact, the Title II classification that net neutrality supporters are so big on actually exempts ISPs from FTC regulation, preventing the government from breaking up…

What a joke. The idea that the US is going to break up monopolies and conspiring oligarchies is plain laughable. While you're talking about fairy tales, why don't you suggest that if elected officials were honest...

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#88
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can only be fixed by the FTC, yes. But it's against Google's interests for antitrust law to come back into vogue, so they've put a lot of money into getting folks on board with the FCC, which doesn't have jurisdiction over Google, being in charge. In fact, the Title II classification that net neutrality supporters are so big on actually exempts ISPs from FTC regulation, preventing the government from breaking up…

What a joke. The idea that the US is going to break up monopolies and conspiring oligarchies is plain laughable. While you're talking about fairy tales, why don't you suggest that if elected officials were honest...

it's happened before

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#89

Am I the only person who thinks this whole approach to Net Neutrality is wrongly pursued through the FCC? Hear me out: if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum and there isn't any censorship issue at stake, if the issue is truly differential access and usage due to oligopolistic limitation, isn't it for the FTC to intervene and bust up throttling and content blocks under restrai…

> Hear me out: if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum and there isn't any censorship issue at stake, if the issue is truly differential access and usage due to oligopolistic limitation, isn't it for the FTC to intervene and bust up throttling and content blocks under restraint of trade doctrine?

No, the FCC jurisdiction (even leaving aside broadband specifically) isn't predicated solely on a “physically limited resource”, otherwise it wouldn't have jurisdiction over telcos.

Further—while appeals have not been exhausted yet—AT&T v. FTC, if it holds up, will prevent any common carrier (e.g., any wireline telco) from being regulated in many activities by the FTC even in non-video-gaming activities (such as post-NN-repeal ISP services.)

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