Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

vox.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 443 posts

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#401

Post by ChrisLomont »

poslathian wrote: post #58
ChrisLomont wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graph in the picture showed 16K deaths in 1923, for a US population of 111M then, with likely much smaller per capita driving miles than now. Now population is 323M, and there are around 5K pedestrian/car deaths annually [1]. We drive around 3 trillion miles annually[2]. If you can find the total or per capita miles driven in 1923, I think that would make the data complete. But it seems quite clear pedestrian dea…

Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths. In 2016 there were 37,000 fatalities from motor vehicle crashes. The figure in the article is similarly reporting all automotive fatalities. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths...

> Just to be clear, and I don’t think you said otherwise, that 5k number is only pedestrian deaths

I clearly wrote "pedestrian/car deaths" and linked to a source that clearly explained it. I'm not sure how else to put it.

Here's a better answer [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007. That should completely answer the request for a source.

[1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#402

Post by ChrisLomont »

Steltek wrote: post #99
ChrisLomont wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The graph in the picture showed 16K deaths in 1923, for a US population of 111M then, with likely much smaller per capita driving miles than now. Now population is 323M, and there are around 5K pedestrian/car deaths annually [1]. We drive around 3 trillion miles annually[2]. If you can find the total or per capita miles driven in 1923, I think that would make the data complete. But it seems quite clear pedestrian dea…

It's worth noting that this is /pedestrian/ deaths from cars. Total motor vehicle deaths are around 40k a year in the US.

Yes, and the rate has decreased a lot since 1923, as the OP claimed [1]: 21 fatalities per 100M vehicle miles of travel in 1923 to 1.36 in 2007.

[1] https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2007/p...

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#403

Post by eqtn »

pwaai wrote: post #238
mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

> Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero. What about people who genuinely love t…

It will be illegal to drive a car.

There will be car clubs where people interested driving car can go and have the experience.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#404

Post by landryraccoon »

revelation wrote: post #210
landryraccoon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes aren’t faster than cars for the elderly, the vision impaired, handicapped people or small children. I’m all for more bikes and more bike routes, but cars offer more independence for a lot of movement restricted people.

I hope the vision impaired and small children aren't driving cars. And all of these groups would be helped much much more by not designing cities around cars, in the 95% of hours in the day where they are not in cars and need to navigate every day life. A $60k retrofitted transporter van isn't exactly the definition of "independence".

But they are being driven around by parents, family members, Uber/Lyft or friends.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#405

Post by landryraccoon »

frabbit wrote: post #209
landryraccoon wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes aren’t faster than cars for the elderly, the vision impaired, handicapped people or small children. I’m all for more bikes and more bike routes, but cars offer more independence for a lot of movement restricted people.

The vision impaired and small children should not be driving anyway. And depending on the "handicap" and the age-related abilities they may also be detrimental to safe piloting of a vehicle. The solution is public transport. (Or tandem bicycles).

They can ride as passengers. You're arguing that tandem bicycles is a serious solution for the elderly or handicapped people? Is there a community where this is common?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#406

Post by icebraining »

Noos wrote: post #350
contingencies wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are evaluating many things from an American context and you reveal that you are older. IMHO the problem with American environments are that they're often semi-explicitly designed around the car. If you are used to a car, not having one is probably a horrible prospect. However, as you explicitly discussed aging, you can't put your head in the sand - obviously eventually you won't be able to drive a car, so…

You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.

Oh, wow, that's not my experience at all. Most of my older relatives and their friends walked 30m/day into their 80s, long after they no longer had the reflexes or eyesight to be safe drivers.

The thing with walking is that it's very much a "use it or lose it" thing; people who never owned cars are much more likely to keep walking.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#407

Post by Annatar »

I’ve been driving for several decades. I’m also an avid automobile enthusiast, “will talk cars with anyone” kind of a guy.

But for 30 minutes every day, I’m just an ordinary pedestrian. And I follow the traffic rules and regulations which apply to pedestrians religiously: always cross at a crosswalk, never cross on Red, even if the intersection is devoid of traffic. Why do I do that? Because as a driver and as a pedestrian, I understand the challenges and the dangers of being on both sides. It has to do with discipline and maintenace of the very high standard of living I enjoy in the country where I live. Being undisciplined would erode that standard.

Many pedestrians are undisciplined. I see them crossing the road at places other than a crosswalk. I see them crossing the road on Red, while as a fellow pedestrian I patiently wait to cross at a crosswalk when the traffic light turns Green. It angers me greatly when other pedestrians aren’t disciplined, not only because they erode the standard of living, but because I could have just as easily been the driver who unwittingly hits them and has to live with that for the rest of her or his life.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#408

Post by emj »

sethammons wrote: post #398
emj wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need some extra clothes to handle -18°C no problem at all IMHO, and as long as the temprature is below freezing you will have no problem with shitty roads. I would say the winter is the best season to bicycle, you can go everywhere.

I'm going to assume you're unfamiliar with being poor. I recall my shoe's sole could flap open and let in snow and the only clothes I had were the pair of jeans that I had on (that were wet from snowmelt) and a crappy jacket. Just getting some extra clothes was not as easy as going down to REI. And if the weather fluctuates from below freezing to above, you have unforgiving ice that cannot be cycled upon. Sorry for a…

That type of weather is not the norm, the amount of potential misery days on bicycle can be counted on one hand in a year, and it's easy to alleviate and make them potentially enjoyable.

Please try it again it's not really the same experience if you choose to do it. All your problems described above are easy to solve, if you have resources to buy a car[1]. Ice bark roads are navigable with cheap winter tires (it does take you 40% longer to traverse though). I need to have a change of clothes and layers. good gloves, shoes and socks are vital below -12° if you bicycle for and 1 hour in such conditions it's going to hurt alot.

[1] You might need to sell the car though, which might not be an option, but in the long run you should come out ahead

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#409

Post by closeparen »

dionidium wrote: post #244
pwaai wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero. What about people who genuinely love t…

> What about people who genuinely love to drive cars & ride motorcycles? I suspect we can find a place for them outside of our most densely populated urban cores. The popularity of cars isn't in itself a scandal. The scandal is that cars still enjoy undue priority in places like Midtown Manhattan, it's that urban neighborhoods were destroyed and divided by interstate highways, it's that most cities no longer function…

You can have high-throughout roads into cities, or hypergentrification in urban neighborhoods as people move closer to minimize transportation needs. The existing suburban masses are not going to vanish into thin air.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#410

Post by ck425 »

Noos wrote: post #350
contingencies wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are evaluating many things from an American context and you reveal that you are older. IMHO the problem with American environments are that they're often semi-explicitly designed around the car. If you are used to a car, not having one is probably a horrible prospect. However, as you explicitly discussed aging, you can't put your head in the sand - obviously eventually you won't be able to drive a car, so…

You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.

Can I ask what age you? You should easily be able to walk 30 min at any age short of 60, unless you have relates health issues. If you can't then you need to seriously consider improving your health.
Post reply on HN