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A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

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Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#11

Post by gsnedders »

tensor wrote: post #7
HanayamaTriplet wrote: post #6

I find it an odd choice to single out SF for the title (currently "A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL"), given that the data show that Seattle pay after tax and COL is almost 2.4x Toronto.

That's not true, total compensation in the article is ~1.7 more in SF than Toronto, but that includes stock options which are not actually the same as cash. The 2x figure comes from an analysis that factors in living expenses and refers to the amount of money you get left over for savings and similar things. Also, that comparison oddly compares living in a frat-like house in SF to having your own one bedroom apartmen…

> Also, that comparison oddly compares living in a frat-like house in SF to having your own one bedroom apartment in Toronto.

Um, uh… So how do they compare if we assume similar living situation in both? (And yes, I realise that's still a massively subjective question, given questions of neighbourhood, etc., and rent variation within them.)

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#12

Post by g9yuayon »

Assuming employees have the same productivity in two different locations, shouldn't a company even pay more to the employees in the location that has lower operational cost, because the company will end up having a higher margin anyway? Instead, what I often see is that companies use "lower living cost"(which I assume is correlated with lower operational cost) as a justification of paying an employee less.

Yeah yeah, I understand that it eventually boils down to supply and demand of talent, but just saying...

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#13

Post by andrew_wc_brown »

Its quite frustrating as a Canadian web-developer. There are plenty of remote jobs that I would qualify skill and experience wise in the US that are for 120K USD. But they won't hire remote Canadians because its a hassle for some reason.

There are few Canadian companies that are remoting and generally they cap out at 70K. There are higher paying remoting jobs in Canada but to get them you have to do in-person networking to secure them.

I'm from Thunder Bay originally and honestly would prefer to live someone cheap but I'm forced back into the GTA because people want to have their head over your shoulder.

The only way to get about the 70K cap was to run my own firm, which brought in lots of money but was quite the chore to keep stable.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#14

Post by Scoundreller »

If you can work as an incorporated contractor, Canadian taxes can be quite low when you sprinkle the income across your family.

* The government is starting to catch on and might put an end to paying out dividends to non-working family members.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#15

Post by Scoundreller »

guiomie wrote: post #10

The author says in the middle of the post: " I believe this is the key in retaining young Canadian tech talent in Canada. If an intern has a great experience at a Canadian tech company, they are more likely to sacrifice the additional compensation in US to remain in Canada. Sell them on the culture, not the money." And then says: " Tech CEOs in Canada often complain about the brain drain issue, but only a few compani…

Or those that remain in Canada can't get a US visa for some reason. e.g. not a Canadian citizen, or otherwise can't meet TN1 requirements (not having a degree).

Or have a significant other that can't get a visa.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#16

Post by cheez »

Scoundreller wrote: post #14

If you can work as an incorporated contractor, Canadian taxes can be quite low when you sprinkle the income across your family. * The government is starting to catch on and might put an end to paying out dividends to non-working family members.

Only if the dividends are above 400K or something?

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#17

Post by saagarjha »

> This data set is not big enough to draw broad conclusions.

This, very much. You have around 100-120 responses, and for many groups (gender, company) you had <20 people responding. You really can't draw any conclusions from this, especially because a lot of the "results" differed by very little.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#18

Post by Scoundreller »

cheez wrote: post #16
Scoundreller wrote: post #14

If you can work as an incorporated contractor, Canadian taxes can be quite low when you sprinkle the income across your family. * The government is starting to catch on and might put an end to paying out dividends to non-working family members.

Only if the dividends are above 400K or something?

I haven't been following the day-to-day news, but if that's what it is... the income splitting benefit is still massive.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#19

Post by hkjayakumar »

g9yuayon wrote: post #12

Assuming employees have the same productivity in two different locations, shouldn't a company even pay more to the employees in the location that has lower operational cost, because the company will end up having a higher margin anyway? Instead, what I often see is that companies use "lower living cost"(which I assume is correlated with lower operational cost) as a justification of paying an employee less. Yeah yeah,…

Well, companies also prefer higher margins to lower margin i.e. if they can get away with paying lesser compensation, then that's exactly what they will do.

Re: A new grad SDE makes 2x more in SF than Toronto after tax and COL

#20

Post by pmiller2 »

andrew_wc_brown wrote: post #13

Its quite frustrating as a Canadian web-developer. There are plenty of remote jobs that I would qualify skill and experience wise in the US that are for 120K USD. But they won't hire remote Canadians because its a hassle for some reason. There are few Canadian companies that are remoting and generally they cap out at 70K. There are higher paying remoting jobs in Canada but to get them you have to do in-person network…

The flip side of this is an experience I had a while ago interviewing with a Canadian company for a remote position. Since I expected it to be an issue, I was up front with the interviewer that I needed a minimum of $X to pay my bills in the Bay Area and that I wasn't interested in moving. They were not willing to proceed, and told me that was the reason. I appreciated their candor, but it really turned me (as an American) off of Canadian companies.
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