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How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

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Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#341

Post by pyre »

tasuki wrote: post #334
Noos wrote: post #305

Can HN please stop it with this "not owning a car is virtuous" shtick? I went most of my younger life not having a car, only learning to drive at age 28. I lived in a new england suburb close enough to go to my work and shopping services at a ten minute walk at the time, and it still was horrid. People here don't get how limited your life is without a car. You are limited to a ten-fifteen mile radius for everything,…

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

> In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground

I assume that the parent post meant 0°F which is around -18°C.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#342

Post by mieseratte »

rootusrootus wrote: post #283
mieseratte wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might have exaggerated / misspoken in saying that, but at the same time it hinges on you trusting that the manufacturer is A) telling the truth and B) that device has not been compromised. It is fair to say that it is always listening. Also possible, is that a device positioned in the kitchen helping being used to lookup a recipe could overhear a sensitive conversation in an adjacent room.

I would bet that the Echo and devices like it are amongst the most monitored consumer devices in existence. Plenty of people either already have enough network monitoring to catch it misbehaving, or will install that monitoring just for the sake of catching it. In a weird sense it's like open source software in that regard. I haven't read all the code myself, I really on group knowledge to reassure me. Same for Echo.…

> As a practical matter the Echo and other similar devices are difficult to turn into full-time listen-and-record devices unnoticed.

Why would it be harder to pwn than anything else?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#343

Post by Froyoh »

tasuki wrote: post #334
Noos wrote: post #305

Can HN please stop it with this "not owning a car is virtuous" shtick? I went most of my younger life not having a car, only learning to drive at age 28. I lived in a new england suburb close enough to go to my work and shopping services at a ten minute walk at the time, and it still was horrid. People here don't get how limited your life is without a car. You are limited to a ten-fifteen mile radius for everything,…

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

There are winter tires for bicycles?

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#344

Post by nkoren »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #300
nkoren wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then you remember that as part of the passenger safety case for driverless taxis, there will necessarily be cameras and microphones and the ability to lock the doors and redirect the taxi to the nearest hospital or police station, right? When we were building the Heathrow Pod[1] -- which is effectively an autonomous taxi system -- this was an objection that people raised all the time. In practice, it took approxi…

So it will be illegal to have sex at the back of an autonomously driven car?

Who said anything about illegal? Merely monetised. You'll be able to find the videos at www.lookwhohadsexinthebackofataxi.xxx.[1]

1: This does not reflect the views of any previous, current, or future employers, or indeed of myself when I'm being serious.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#345

Post by mulmen »

forinti wrote: post #328
mlinksva wrote: post #27

Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero.

I think we should limit the mass of urban cars, so that they would not be heavier than a golf cart. This way, most accidents would be of no consequence (I remember an out-of-control cart in a football stadium that hit several people and none were hurt), and we could let even younger people drive. It really makes no sense for an 80Kg person to go around in a 1000kg vehicle.

Mass is only part of the equation. If you move a golf cart at 45mph it's still going to do damage if it hits someone. We have to reduce speed as well and that means it takes longer to get to your destination. There are solutions there (mixed use/high density residential?) but it's not as simple as "smaller cars".

The 1000kg vehicle protects the 80kg person from harm because the 80kg person is not designed to go 100kph.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#346

Post by dozzie »

dionidium wrote: post #244
pwaai wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now is an opportunity, perhaps first in ~100 years, perhaps last, to recover the streets for unaugmented humans: slow down cars in urban areas, increase qualifications for humans to drive, eventually ban human drivers entirely, leaving only automated vehicles with enough sensors and going slowly enough to reduce auto-related deaths for pedestrians and passengers alike to zero. What about people who genuinely love t…

> What about people who genuinely love to drive cars & ride motorcycles? I suspect we can find a place for them outside of our most densely populated urban cores. The popularity of cars isn't in itself a scandal. The scandal is that cars still enjoy undue priority in places like Midtown Manhattan, it's that urban neighborhoods were destroyed and divided by interstate highways, it's that most cities no longer function…

> it's that most cities no longer function properly for the carless

I think the world outside USA would want a word with you about that "most cities" part.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#347

Post by MaxBarraclough »

taneliv wrote: post #276
MaxBarraclough wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If certain intersections or sections of road consistently confuse AI drivers, automakers will lobby for ways to change these roadways. I doubt that attitude will ever catch on. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but it seems to me that there's a healthy suspicion about AI drivers. So far at least, the attitude taken by, well, everyone , is that AI drivers are untrustworthy until proven trustworthy. If AI drivers ca…

When 80-90% of car driving population have switched over to AI driven cars, the focus of Ludditism probably shifts to something more emerging technology and the great majority of people will just nod their heads in unison with those lobbying automakers. It is not particularly difficult to imagine the general public swaying even to some opposite extreme, supported by some reasoning like "he probably did something wron…

Interesting points. I suppose that's one possibility, but I'm more of an optimist.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#348

Post by Noos »

tasuki wrote: post #334
Noos wrote: post #305

Can HN please stop it with this "not owning a car is virtuous" shtick? I went most of my younger life not having a car, only learning to drive at age 28. I lived in a new england suburb close enough to go to my work and shopping services at a ten minute walk at the time, and it still was horrid. People here don't get how limited your life is without a car. You are limited to a ten-fifteen mile radius for everything,…

> A life without personal cars would be a rather limited and even serfish one. This is highly dependent on your location and life circumstances. I live in Eastern Europe, have resources to easily buy a couple of cars, yet choose not to. I prefer to walk or cycle. > People talk about bicycles, but 0 degree or snowy weather makes that horrid In Amsterdam, people cycle in -10°C when there's 10cm of snow on the ground (I…

I have walked in that temperature. Its only something the young and very healthy can do, and the wind cuts like a knife. I wouldn't bike in that weather due to wind chill and the slushy nature of most roads, as well as the fact its very hilly where I live.

I cannot see an entire society doing this, in areas that range from small towns to medium sized cities.

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#349

Post by kevinschumacher »

freehunter wrote: post #286
Lukeas14 wrote: post #186

Not surprising to read that Los Angeles was the starting point for jaywalking laws. Still today, it enforces them harder than most other cities. Try running across an empty street with no crosswalk for 1/4 mile in either direction in front of a cop. It's likely that you'll still receive a fine citation. I'd like to see it replaced with an "impeding traffic" law that would only apply if you're actually putting yoursel…

Granted I don't live in LA, but I've visited many times and I'm surprised by this comment because it doesn't match my experience. I"m much more familiar with Chicago, where a taxi cab will jump a curb just for the chance to run down a pedestrian. Meanwhile every time I've tried to cross a road in LA, the minute I lift one foot off the ground while standing at a crosswalk, traffic in both directions comes screeching t…

At crosswalks that don’t have lights, they have to stop for you when you’re there. This is also heavily enforced.

But in areas without crosswalks, you’ll get a ticket for stepping into the street even if there are no cars coming.

Edit: clarity

Re: How Automakers Invented the Crime of “Jaywalking”

#350

Post by Noos »

contingencies wrote: post #325
Noos wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's called "being wealthy." Being wealthy enables you to escape a lot of the problems that not having a car involves, because you can just throw money at the problem to overcome it. A lot of people are not wealthy and cannot do this. There's also a bit of good fortune involved. I was young, single, and healthy. But I'm older now, and there are times when I simply cannot afford to use public transit or walk. If you…

I think you are evaluating many things from an American context and you reveal that you are older. IMHO the problem with American environments are that they're often semi-explicitly designed around the car. If you are used to a car, not having one is probably a horrible prospect. However, as you explicitly discussed aging, you can't put your head in the sand - obviously eventually you won't be able to drive a car, so…

You can drive a car a lot longer than you can walk. I could do a 30 minute walk as a younger person, but now it's something I could only do as a special thing, not every day to a job. Society will not be able to redesign for this; if anything it's other people who own cars that act as caregivers for housebound seniors as their work.
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