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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#81

Post by woahdudebro »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #77
woahdudebro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have discovered white nationalist groups who believe that other races are not inferior but merely different and thus they wish for a society where they are excluded. Does that foster hate?

Thanks for the straw man. You can send it back to field though. Women != white natonalists The key here is in the accepted definition of "women" vs "white nationalists".

I seek to understand the objective standard that allows one type of discrimination while condemning another, perhaps you can provide clarity there?

I don't understand the down votes here, I am merely asking for an explanation of the logic used. I'm autistic so I sometimes have trouble understanding things that are obvious to people who are not. Without more data I will have to assume this is exclusively a emotional justification and thus subjective.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#83

Post by [deleted] »

bischofs wrote: post #24

I am a bit triggered. This segregation stuff does not make sense to me, it almost feels like prison rules - keep genders/races away from each other because if they interact it will probably be violent. I wondered what would happen if I created a community where the core culture was set by women, and the software and product decisions were also made by women -> This also seems strange to me and counterproductive. If w…

[deleted]

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#85

Post by metaphoracle »

fvdessen wrote: post #46
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> The measurable advantage men have in the tech community What is that advantage and how is it measured ?

We women in tech frequently need to re-hash this discussion. We offer personal anecdotes, and they are written off as outliers. We present diversity numbers and pay gap data, and we are told that those are due to women either choosing family life over career or that we are biologically predisposed to not being as good as men at tech. We present data and stories about rampant, institutionalized sexism at large industry leaders, and we are scolded for being "overly sensitive". Assertiveness is conflated as bitchiness. Timidness as incompetence. The advantage is apparent - the real goal of constantly asking us to prove the advantage is to create doubt and the appearance of a controversy over the data. But I see these as thinly veiled gaslighting attempts. I have worked in tech all my life, and have had many men take credit for my initiatives and ideas, talk over me constantly through most meetings, pass me up for promotions because I didn't "engage with the team" (ie. attending late night drinking sessions at strip clubs), always get second guessed - even when I am the resident SME and was hired specifically for task, etc. I have lived it. If more men would make themselves aware of the systemic sexism in the industry instead of making women repeat themselves, argue every data point, and be 3x as good as their peers to receive recognition, maybe we could stop having this discussion . . .

See:

https://blog.100tb.com/the-technology-industry-is-a-mans-wor...

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/women-in-tech-gender-...

https://www.witi.com/articles/1165/Men-Dominate-the-Tech-Ind...

https://qz.com/940660/tech-is-overwhelmingly-male-and-men-ar...

Also:

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents

There are piles of data. Seriously, you are one google away from incontrovertible evidence.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#87

Post by ianwalter »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #53
ianwalter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious: have you spent a lot of time thinking about this or was this the first reaction that popped into your head?

That is a good question, and I've thought about it a lot. There seems to be a growing group of people who think it's okay for minorities to discriminate against the majority in order to gain more power, but I'm just not convinced that it's the right way to correct social imbalances. I think that it would lead to everyone both in the majority and minority feeling persecuted. I think this would fuel and maintain hatred…

Cool, I disagree with your conclusions but it would be nice if there was a better way to correct social imbalances. They definitely don't seem to fix themselves!

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#88

Post by rev_bird »

woahdudebro wrote: post #76
rev_bird wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating "excluded from a web forum" with "excluded from society." The whole point of groups like Leap is BECAUSE those members want everyone working together -- they're not in their clubhouse plotting the deportation of men, they're trying to figure out how to get on even footing in an industry that has been hostile to women for years.

White nationalists tend to have a similar view of how they have been treated. I disagree personally but I don't allow my personal assumptions cloud my judgement when discussing these topics. Can you formulate an objective standard that allows an individual to determine what types of discrimination are moral or immoral?

I disagree that white nationalists have a similar view, though it's interesting that someone linked to a forum where women can feel safe from attack in discussions and we're currently debating their similarities to neo-Nazis.

The white nationalist stance (in general) is that racial hegemony, with their group at the top of the heap, is the preferential state of affairs. The stance of this group, as far as I can tell, is that gender equality is the preferential state. Those seem like very different things.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#89

Post by cbcowans »

kdelok wrote: post #49
cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

(not for me, so I'm not sure how much I could respond to questions) Is Leap for people who are i) female, ii) identify as a woman, or iii) both? I ask because I have a few friends who are biologically female, but genderqueer (by which they mean that they don't prescribe to the cultural stuff that is usually attached to gender). Would this be suitable for them? As a more general note, since this looks to be a communit…

Thank you for asking. iii – My goal is to create an inclusive community. I'd say Leap is suitable for your friend. I am also learning as I go, so would love feedback!

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#90

Post by msla »

cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

How does your site cater to the nonbinary and trans communities?

Does the fact you apparently require participation in Facebook to register signal that you agree with Facebook's policy of outing trans and gender-non-conforming individuals in the enforcement of its "real name" policy?

(Not to imply that's anywhere near the only problem with Facebook's "real name" policy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_real-name_policy_cont... )

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