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Leap: An Online Community for Women

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#71

Post by RangerScience »

cirgue wrote: post #63

What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation policies and forum culture? I ask because I think this is a cool project, but there is also the inescapable fact that at some point men and women will have to work together in engineering environments, and we still have a dearth of environments that foster those interactions.

Sounds like you have a community that you want to exist, and that you have a vision for.

Is there anything preventing you from going out and making it?

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#72

Post by rarec »

rev_bird wrote: post #69
cirgue wrote: post #63

What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation policies and forum culture? I ask because I think this is a cool project, but there is also the inescapable fact that at some point men and women will have to work together in engineering environments, and we still have a dearth of environments that foster those interactions.

>What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation policies and forum culture? I think this comment thread is a pretty good illustration of the problem. A group of women are saying, "hey, we think this is a beneficial project, for this reason and this other reason," and a bunch of men are saying "WRONG it's pretty much white supremacy except against men." Forums reflect their membership -- in an…

On the same token, a specifically male only group tends to get crucified. It's more of a confusion of double standards, perceived or otherwise. Sure, most groups end up de-facto male only, but you never see groups actively advertised as male only.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#73

Post by rev_bird »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #45
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. There is obviously an imbalance in the industry, but can you please provide proof that this is due to an advantage that men have? > If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. Why would fighting…

>Why would fighting racism with racism or sexism with sexism be a productive method of correcting imbalances? Wouldn't that just fuel and maintain the disdain between groups?

Is this the "all lives matter!" response to this project? It's not a crime to point out that some groups are poorly represented in an industry. Are you saying the solution to "hey, women feel isolated in the tech industry" is to say "Well, let's figure out how to include men too"? If women felt like their discussions were being treated fairly in public forums, they'd have stayed in them.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#74

Post by cbcowans »

seany wrote: post #14
cbcowans wrote: post #2

Hi! I'm the creator of Leap. Glad to answer questions here.

Is there going to be support for moderation transparency? Moderation bias seems to be an issue in these kinds of "closed" discussion platforms.

I expect moderation will evolve as the community evolves, but I don't plan to limit what people choose to talk about so long as participants treat each other with respect.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#76

Post by woahdudebro »

rev_bird wrote: post #64
woahdudebro wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have discovered white nationalist groups who believe that other races are not inferior but merely different and thus they wish for a society where they are excluded. Does that foster hate?

You're conflating "excluded from a web forum" with "excluded from society." The whole point of groups like Leap is BECAUSE those members want everyone working together -- they're not in their clubhouse plotting the deportation of men, they're trying to figure out how to get on even footing in an industry that has been hostile to women for years.

White nationalists tend to have a similar view of how they have been treated. I disagree personally but I don't allow my personal assumptions cloud my judgement when discussing these topics. Can you formulate an objective standard that allows an individual to determine what types of discrimination are moral or immoral?

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#77

Post by iovrthoughtthis »

woahdudebro wrote: post #59
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it foster hate? That's a pretty big jump.

I have discovered white nationalist groups who believe that other races are not inferior but merely different and thus they wish for a society where they are excluded. Does that foster hate?

Thanks for the straw man. You can send it back to field though.

Women != white natonalists

The key here is in the accepted definition of "women" vs "white nationalists".

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#78

Post by rev_bird »

fvdessen wrote: post #46
rev_bird wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Wouldn't Leap be unfair in the same way? This assumption completely disregards the measurable advantage men have in the tech community. If you have identical programs, one for a historically disenfranchised group, and one for the group that's been in power for decades, only one of those programs is shitty. edit: "Advantage" was a poor choice of words, but since it's been quoted in replies I'll leave it. I meant some…

> The measurable advantage men have in the tech community What is that advantage and how is it measured ?

As I noted above, "advantage" was the wrong word, my apologies. There's tons of information out there about the disproportionate number of men working in tech, to say nothing of the salary discrepancies that cause so much drama here.

At the end of the day, women say they feel that they feel isolated by an industry that is overwhelmingly male, and that being able to connect with other women and discuss their experiences is a valuable way to stay in a career that they might otherwise bail on. I'm inclined to believe them.

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#79

Post by ambivalents »

rarec wrote: post #72
rev_bird wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What problem is this intended to solve that isn't solved by moderation policies and forum culture? I think this comment thread is a pretty good illustration of the problem. A group of women are saying, "hey, we think this is a beneficial project, for this reason and this other reason," and a bunch of men are saying "WRONG it's pretty much white supremacy except against men." Forums reflect their membership -- in an…

On the same token, a specifically male only group tends to get crucified. It's more of a confusion of double standards, perceived or otherwise. Sure, most groups end up de-facto male only, but you never see groups actively advertised as male only.

This once again reads as an illustration of the problem. This isn't an issue of double standards. You do understand the difference in experiences, right, between members of a group comprised and in support of a minority/systematically-unrepresented group, and a counterpart group comprised of a majority/the ones often perpetuating (even if indirectly) this imbalance?

Re: Leap: An Online Community for Women

#80

Post by fruzz »

turinapple wrote: post #54

I'm a woman that's worked in tech since 2011... at times the discrimination and treatment I've faced has made me want to quit the industry all together. But every time I reached that point I thought - no, I'm not the one who should have to leave, it's the people -- usually men -- who have not shown empathy, kindness or compassion. The ones who have bullied me and harassed me and made inappropriate comments or advance…

I really wish your experience was unique.

A colleague was groped. She didn't report it. It would have likely diminished her future prospects. A friend was asked out on dates, unsolicited, multiple times by coworkers. She just had to laugh it off. Women at a previous employment reported not being taken as seriously as men in meetings, and being passed over for promotions in favour of less qualified men. A friend reported sexualized posters of women up in the office. In the chat of my company, a sexualized video of women was passed around.

I'm trans, so my challenges are a bit different. I try to hide the fact that I'm trans during interviews. A lot of people are uncomfortable with trans people (26% of Canadian men are uncomfortable moving next to one), and with interviews to see if I'm socially a good fit, that can end it. I actually changed my name to an androgynous one as to not out myself. I get misgendered at work by people who do it on purpose. I also get touched inappropriately by a coworker.

In all cases, what can you do to challenge these things without being seen as "the crazy one", "too sensitive", "party pooper", or whatever? Without hurting my finances? It's shit.

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