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Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

nytimes.com

41–50 of 244 posts

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#41
post #34
post #3

This was a necessary phase. Mass adoption couldn't have been achieved without the exponential price rise of various cryptocurrency tokens. There would not have been media coverage of this proportion, had it not been for the gains. People now talk cryptocurrency, read more about the underlying technology and accept that it will positively affect the industry in the upcoming future. I hope the market stabilizes and som…

It's only adoption when at least one of these is true: a) people regularly trade it for goods or services b) people stop caring about the conversion rate to their local plain old fiat money currency a could greatly help b but it's not happening

c) the government accepts taxes in it

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#42
post #3

This was a necessary phase. Mass adoption couldn't have been achieved without the exponential price rise of various cryptocurrency tokens. There would not have been media coverage of this proportion, had it not been for the gains. People now talk cryptocurrency, read more about the underlying technology and accept that it will positively affect the industry in the upcoming future. I hope the market stabilizes and som…

> read more about the underlying technology And how do they do that really? Just to remind you, I see even some of the brightest mind in technology get confused with the explanations on cryptocurrency side. Specially when it comes with a healthy dose of made-up jargon - side chain, off chain, colored coins to name a few.

EdX has a course on hyperledger https://www.edx.org/course/blockchain-business-introduction-...

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#43
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not seeing the whole picture and don't understand the goal of the "coin" in a "blockchain". I would strongly urge you to do some research so that you can make up your mind from a place of knowledge instead. http://github.com/jpantunes/awesome-cryptoeconomics

Coins are just the last part of long trend of financialization with somewhat different technological implementation. You take an underlying asset and you create financial instrument that enables more efficient trading and valuation in the marketplace. I understand blockchain and cryptoeconomic angle better than I understand the current system and I suspect that it's the same with you. When I talk to people who unders…

The tokens on a blockchain fulfil the goal of providing economic incentives for the perpetuation of the network itself.

I would gladly spend time explaining this over and over again but it seems all my comments are downvoted so I'm not motivated to provide free content on hacker news.

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#44
post #40

Is anyone else tired of hearing the word 'bubble' applied to everything? Whether we're talking about tech stocks, chicken futures, tulips, or Bitcoin, it's become a really tired and meaningless term. You can't know if an asset is in a 'bubble' until long after the bubble has burst. Bitcoin is far from having burst, so this article and all those that came before it offer nothing new or insightful. Please, let's move p…

We had the dot-com bubble, but it didn't stop the internet from changing everything in fundamental way. Google, Facebook and Amazon are in the top 10 most valuable companies in the world - all completely dependant on the internet for the business model. Granted webvan and pets.com didn't make it, but it didn't mean the internet had failed as an idea.

What it meant is that people were throwing money at really bad idea, because they didn't understand the web, they just FOMO.

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#45

I am personally hoping we can survive the speculation craze and reach a point where we can use the block chain technology in revolutionary (or even evolutionary) ways. Since it’s tax time I can’t help but feel that the true long term danger to block chain technology isn’t draconian government regulation, it’s the IRS. For example I have a transaction earlier this year where I purchased some software for $15 BTC equiv…

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Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#46
post #5

I hope the technology matures beyond 'blockchain' and marketing drops the 'coin' moniker and the gold rush dies down. Cryptographically verified distributed log files should have negligible hype value and be hidden part of the infrastructure. I predict that 10 years from now normal relational databases have infrastructure for shared, authenticated and verified rows and columns and we laugh at the ICO era.

Hyperledger is a better term. Distributed Ledger Technology is a better blanket term.

See https://www.hyperledger.org

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#47
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> read more about the underlying technology And how do they do that really? Just to remind you, I see even some of the brightest mind in technology get confused with the explanations on cryptocurrency side. Specially when it comes with a healthy dose of made-up jargon - side chain, off chain, colored coins to name a few.

EdX has a course on hyperledger https://www.edx.org/course/blockchain-business-introduction-...

And how does it relate to cryptocurrency tokens? If I take the course would I understand most of the tokens being sold?

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not seeing the whole picture and don't understand the goal of the "coin" in a "blockchain". I would strongly urge you to do some research so that you can make up your mind from a place of knowledge instead. http://github.com/jpantunes/awesome-cryptoeconomics

I tried some of the introductory stuff and even that is difficult for me. How about an ELIF of the goals of the coin?

I find this (http://ncase.me/trust/) to be the easiest point of entry to game theory.

If you are serious about learning cryptoeconomics please feel free to ping me and I'll help in any small way I can.

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I don't think a lot of people grasp that cryptocurrency is more than just a distributed ledger. It's as much of an economic innovation as a technical one.

Nobody fails to grasp the possibilities of these currencies, what they disagree with is utility to hype value. When people throw out "you don't get this" as an argument against skepticism, it sounds naive and a little insulting. This quote was in that NYT "Everyone's Getting Rich.." article: The tone turns somber. “Sometimes I think about what would happen to the future if a bomb went off at one of our meetings,” Mr.…

I don't mean to sound insulting or naive but maybe I am doing so by accident. Let me try in another way, what is the motivation for hobbyists and companies like Fidelity to buy mining hardware to secure a public blockchain?

Re: Beyond the Bitcoin bubble

#50
post #5

I hope the technology matures beyond 'blockchain' and marketing drops the 'coin' moniker and the gold rush dies down. Cryptographically verified distributed log files should have negligible hype value and be hidden part of the infrastructure. I predict that 10 years from now normal relational databases have infrastructure for shared, authenticated and verified rows and columns and we laugh at the ICO era.

> I predict that 10 years from now normal relational databases have infrastructure for shared, authenticated and verified rows and columns

Agreed, though with the caveat that this is for transactional systems closer to the settlement/long term storage layers where the added assurance is useful. The performance hit for a traditional (linear) log is too large otherwise... though you can do a causally consistent version instead to reclaim some of the performance. But for more analytical workloads, I doubt it.

I'd actually go one step further and predict that in 3-7 years we'll start seeing early-stage startups, in fields completely unrelated to blockchains, using a smart contract enabled enterprise (private) blockchains for the majority of their backends... dropping most of the backend application layer (currently filled by django/rails/etc) in favor of a Vue/React private blockchain arch.

The _reason_ such a shift might make sense is what you get in return:

- distributed w/ BFT (no _there's a problem with one of the nodes in the etc.d/consul cluster and its down/screwy_ problems)

- complete commoditization of high availability + disaster recovery

- good enough un-sharded write performance (a few 1000 tx's a sec) with unlimited read performance (writes are the expensive part)

- high-security env comes for free

That being said, the current state of smart contracts (specifically solidity but also plutus and tezos') makes this prediction laughable as, at the moment, writing/writing safe blockchain apps is quite difficult. However, if something _like_ Kadena's Pact (disclosure: am founder) finds traction it doesn't look too crazy.

Something like a procedural SQL for key-value DBs + capability-based auth + native REST support... which Pact effectively is when you strip away the blockchain context.

Given that the language is designed for safety and for technical executives/lawyers to be able to read if not write (similar to Excel's/SQL's usability by non-devs) it's stupid simple for a dev to learn. For example, a toy TodoMVC (Vue+Pact): https://github.com/kadena-io/pact-todomvc. Moreover, when you write a contract in Pact you get, for free, a REST API (pact types have native JSON reps) + an RDBMS representation. As if that weren't enough, it has a H-M type system (opt-in) + formal verification.

The only way this prediction can happen is if the smart contract language is far more effective at traditionally app-layer roles (e.g. django, rails). I'm not sure if it'll ever come to pass, but the combo of trivial to learn (and thus hire for) + abundant safety + formal verification could be enough to achieve it.

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