This is related in time and U.S. Political scene: the documentary "Best of Enemies" which centers around ABC's coverage of the U.S. Presidential party conventions hosted by William F. Buckley and Gore Vidal. It also analyzes their histories and it analyzes the rise of identity politics in the U.S. And this identity politics / these debates perhaps showcase the ideological fracturing of the U.S.
How America Fractured in 1968
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Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#52It says radio tv and papers were it, then.
Having lived pre internet news days i am a minority that can truly describe how it was a different world back then. Our world is so much better because tv radio and newspapers matter so much less. We have to think for ourselves and decide which topics are newsworthy:not have others coax and decide what is important.
Long live the internet
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#53I've recently read an account of that time by UC Berkeley professor and it was terrifying: young men terrorizing and using violence towards students and professors during classes, setting fire and planting bombs/dynamite on university buildings, openly calling to killing policemen on radio stations. It seemed like their program was pure anarchy and destruction.
Why not link that account? Mentioned in another comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program > Military intelligence officer K. Barton Osborne reports that he witnessed the following use of torture: > > The use of the insertion of the 6-inch dowel into the canal of one of my detainee's ears, and the tapping through the brain until dead. The starvation to death (in a cage), of a Vietnamese woman who was susp…
Moral-based violence is the worst because the people actually believe they are doing you a favor as they force you to accept their world view or face the consequences. They establish new totalitarianism and feel they make the world a better place.
Late teen and early twenty-something kids have some amount of knowledge, but zero experience. We are reliving the same problem today. Antifa, just like the protesters in the 60s are a bunch of naive kids led by people exploiting that naivety for political gain.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not link that account? Mentioned in another comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program > Military intelligence officer K. Barton Osborne reports that he witnessed the following use of torture: > > The use of the insertion of the 6-inch dowel into the canal of one of my detainee's ears, and the tapping through the brain until dead. The starvation to death (in a cage), of a Vietnamese woman who was susp…
Moral-based violence is the worst because the people actually believe they are doing you a favor as they force you to accept their world view or face the consequences. They establish new totalitarianism and feel they make the world a better place. Late teen and early twenty-something kids have some amount of knowledge, but zero experience. We are reliving the same problem today. Antifa, just like the protesters in th…
> Antifa, just like the protesters in the 60s are a bunch of naive kids led by people exploiting that naivety for political gain.
Just like the kids the US government sent to Vietnam. That war was "Moral-based violence" and the idea that the counter reaction was the real evil is insane.
Edit: There are plenty more recent examples of the government using moral justifications for war - "They hate our freedoms". "Axis of evil". "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists".
If "Moral-based violence" is scary, the US government is its number one peddler, not the protestors.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#55I've recently read an account of that time by UC Berkeley professor and it was terrifying: young men terrorizing and using violence towards students and professors during classes, setting fire and planting bombs/dynamite on university buildings, openly calling to killing policemen on radio stations. It seemed like their program was pure anarchy and destruction.
Why not link that account? Mentioned in another comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program > Military intelligence officer K. Barton Osborne reports that he witnessed the following use of torture: > > The use of the insertion of the 6-inch dowel into the canal of one of my detainee's ears, and the tapping through the brain until dead. The starvation to death (in a cage), of a Vietnamese woman who was susp…
> Why not link that account?
It was in Polish (the professor in question was Czeslaw Milosz), in Milosz's letters to Jerzy Giedroyc.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#56In a college architecture course we were asked to write a paper on 1968, with little other guidance. I remember digging in and being surprised at how pivotal that year was. In 2016 I found myself thinking about that paper, feeling like we might be living through a year that future professors would ask their students to write about.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#57I'm seeing a body of growing evidence that the long-term fracture was due to the War in Vietnam: * it created anti-government groups like the Weathermen * it spurred activist groups on campuses around the country to stage admin building take-overs, sit-ins, and attempts to disruption to the war draft * it created a group of Veterans-- like John Kerry-- who came back and described for the general public horrific war c…
> it created an even larger group of veterans who came back and described a war which-- even if the serviceperson believed in the aims of the U.S. gov't-- was clearly unwinnable
Was it really "unwinnable"? I watched "Vietnam in HD" which is a fantastic series if you're into that kind of thing. It is a difficult watch at times. What I gathered from that is most people seemed to blame the "seek and destroy" tactic. This involved prioritizing destroying enemy encampments, but not actually taking territory. There didn't seem to be line advancements or attempts to create new bases further into enemy territory.
I'm not a military strategist, and I have no idea the kinds of logistics required for it. I do know that it seemed to kill morale for soldiers to go take a hill, and then abandon it for the enemy to go back and take once again. Essentially taking the same ground over and over again. It seems like a lesson in futility.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not link that account? Mentioned in another comment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Program > Military intelligence officer K. Barton Osborne reports that he witnessed the following use of torture: > > The use of the insertion of the 6-inch dowel into the canal of one of my detainee's ears, and the tapping through the brain until dead. The starvation to death (in a cage), of a Vietnamese woman who was susp…
Moral-based violence is the worst because the people actually believe they are doing you a favor as they force you to accept their world view or face the consequences. They establish new totalitarianism and feel they make the world a better place. Late teen and early twenty-something kids have some amount of knowledge, but zero experience. We are reliving the same problem today. Antifa, just like the protesters in th…
I’m not arguing or criticizing or even differing with you here, but simply and genuinely asking: who is exploiting Antifa, and for what gain?
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#59It says radio tv and papers were it, then. Having lived pre internet news days i am a minority that can truly describe how it was a different world back then. Our world is so much better because tv radio and newspapers matter so much less. We have to think for ourselves and decide which topics are newsworthy:not have others coax and decide what is important. Long live the internet
We have to think for ourselves and decide which topics are newsworthy:not have others coax and decide what is important.
Re: How America Fractured in 1968
#60I'm seeing a body of growing evidence that the long-term fracture was due to the War in Vietnam: * it created anti-government groups like the Weathermen * it spurred activist groups on campuses around the country to stage admin building take-overs, sit-ins, and attempts to disruption to the war draft * it created a group of Veterans-- like John Kerry-- who came back and described for the general public horrific war c…
Don't forget that toward the end of his life, MLK Jr. spoke out against the war and ended up splitting his own base.
MLK's speaking out against the war was unpopular, but do you have any references that show he actions split his "base"? That's interesting since I was under the impression that the war was deeply unpopular with blacks.