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Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

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Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#151

Post by saiya-jin »

freeflight wrote: post #111
Fnoord wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On what basis are you making such a statement? That's whats being thought on elementary school traditionally, haha. You don't have to look far though. Look at the usage of Khat by Somalians and Kratom by Thai. If its easily available and socially accepted, its gonna fly and will be very difficult to get rid of. I can't wrap my head around using meth. Speed alone makes my head swirl and everything go fast. Exactly w…

> Exactly which performance would be enhanced by an even stronger upper? Or is it people with undiagnosed ADHD who resort to meth? I've seen it very popular with people working in shifts doing physically very taxing work, like warehouse workers in logistics, often combined with alcohol as a downer. I have atypical ADHS and a small line will keep me up (and mentally super focused) for 3 days straight. But the crash th…

You are correct, but also overestimate how rational young&desperate perceive these self-destructing habits. It's far more emotional, desire to give big FU to all adults and their rules, and not giving a slightest damn about consequences on one's body.

When you're 15, you don't care how your life will look like when you are 30. It feels like talking about retirement.

God I am glad this period is long over, life can be so good now (and apart from alcohol, a bit of weed and few spectacular mushroom trips I didn't do any other substance).

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#152

Post by DanielBMarkham »

tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

"...they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting..."

I've been thinking about this for a day, and it's bugging me. I think the problem here is that this a true statement, yet it is also an incomplete statement. The ways that it is incomplete are important.

This is like saying that startups exist solely to make their founders into successful businesspeople. Well, yes, but there are a ton of folks who want to be successful that don't end up that way.

So sure, if you ask the top guys at the cartel why they're in it -- they're in it for power. But there's a huge sorting and filtering function the market does that's not included in this observation. Routes and methods that work great for cocaine don't work so well for people. Government officials that might be bought off with money siphoned off from huge flows can't be paid off if the flows aren't that great. In short, it makes it appear as if cartels only exist based on the will of the cartel leader. That's whack.

I don't have any other comments about your analysis, but that was bugging me. I wish things were simple enough that it was just a matter of focusing on a few powerful men with large egos. It is not.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#153

Post by dalbasal »

unfunco wrote: post #56
michaelchisari wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the fact of the matter is that it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. If coca cola were made illegal, something that is bad for you by many metrics but hardly life destroying, people are not going to switc…

> it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. Only the first time. Then the opposite is true.

Is it? I remember being told this about pot, as a 12 year old.

I think most drugs have a wide range of users. Some have more or less problem users of various kinds, notably addicts. But all also have large numbers or normative users, even heroin.

In the 80s, the most noticeable gays were transexuals, eccentrics, prostitutes or people busted in embarrassing situations. People who couldn't/wouldn't be low key. This led to the impression that gays are mostly fringey people. Same for prostitution. No one knows about the individuals with a phone number and a regular life. Same for all vice. Normative people manage to keep it under the radar. You see street users, not the 32 year old coffee machine shop owner.

I don't think there's any drug that will addict many users after one or two times. Obviously, many do lead to addiction in large numbers, so are still risky.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#154

Post by falsprofet »

globuous wrote: post #90
jazoom wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a speaker of English where "do" and "due" are not pronounced the same I assure you it's "do".

Don't mind me but... I double checked :D and you're right !! :) - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_do - http://grammarist.com/usage/make-do-make-due/ According to the second link, here's where it comes from: 'Make do is short for make [something] do well enough, where do carries the rare sense to serve a specified purpose. So this do is similar to the one used in sentences such as, “I could use a cup of coffee, bu…

You double checked second hand sources which don't link to primary sources, so at best you are speculating (that) I were wrong, thank you very much.

Edit: And either way, I didn't contest make do as it is used now, I merely hinted at a different origin. So, by that line of reasoning, if make due is in use, it is correct simply by merit of custom, as well.

PS: And this is why these comments are frowned upon, they invariably lead to discussion without a slight chance of consensus.

PPS: But since I tried it already, googles index of old books shows a CLEAR preference for make due. In my opinion though, I'd settle on neither is correct, just like shortenings like "I'd" aren't correct to use in writing.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=make+do%2C+mak...

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#155

Post by lmm »

tomrod wrote: post #88
godelski wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just substitute things and expect them to keep the same market. This is because DEMAND is part of a market force. The demand for pot is substantially higher than the demand for other drugs (like cocaine, heroine, etc), guns, coyotes, etc. If a commodity can no longer be (near) monopolized into their share of the market, then demand does not magically grow for other commodities. Sure, they can pivot strategi…

> You can't just substitute things and expect them to keep the same market. Of course not. What we face is an organized, unregulated, lawless group of dangerous criminals who find one of their primary income sources dwindling. I did not intend for my original point to debate foundations of economic theory, only to point out that they are likely to continue diversifying their product -- apparently they are switching t…

If those other activities are profitable, why wouldn't they be doing them already? Your post implies reducing their ability to sell cannabis will increase their other activities, which I see no reason to believe.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#156

Post by gldalmaso »

michaelchisari wrote: post #43
tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the fact of the matter is that it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. If coca cola were made illegal, something that is bad for you by many metrics but hardly life destroying, people are not going to switc…

If they get hit hard financially from legalized marijuana shops, won't they just come in and extort them for protection money? Or just flat out destroying them or threatening the owners. These guys are not really into fair competition.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#157

Post by roenxi »

derekp7 wrote: post #126
coredog64 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End US crop subsidies. Small Mexican farmers can't compete with large, mechanized, subsidized operations in the US. Subsequently they aren't working paying taxes. This would also be a boon to agricultural nation's in Africa.

Would that result in a higher price for food (something everyone needs to survive), and end up hurting more people than it helps?

Food subsidies are a transfer payment to the people buying food. But the theory is that subsidies create waste - resources are diverted to creating food that wouldn't be if it were unsubsidesed.

The economically honest change would be to cut the subsidy, give out a welfare payment of a similar amount, and then let the market sort itself out. Nobody is a net loser, but the economy can reallocate resources out of farming if it wants. In this case, presumably foreigners would pick up food production and the Americans would go build infrastructure or something instead of farm.

I dunno how feasible the politics is, but that is the basic "everyone wins" case. Arguably the farmers might be worse off because they have to find something else to do.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#158

Post by dx034 »

gldalmaso wrote: post #156
michaelchisari wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. Not disagreeing with your larger point, but the fact of the matter is that it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. If coca cola were made illegal, something that is bad for you by many metrics but hardly life destroying, people are not going to switc…

If they get hit hard financially from legalized marijuana shops, won't they just come in and extort them for protection money? Or just flat out destroying them or threatening the owners. These guys are not really into fair competition.

You need more "infrastructure" to blackmail all Californian weed shops than you need to sell weed. And police (except for federal police) can and will help shop owners. I doubt it's as profitable.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#159

Post by dx034 »

adventured wrote: post #121
chrischen wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States heavily punishes countries that legalize drugs, if not by direct sanctions, then by pulling aid. See how US threatened UN with pulling aid, and Pakistan.

Would you mind elaborating how the US heavily punished Portugal for its actions around drugs? Or for that matter, what crippling sanctions the US placed on Canada for legalizing pot? The peaks days of the drug war are long over. The US has no real capacity to do anything to nations for such decisions, that has become very clear. As more nations and US states legalize and decriminalize, the pro war on drugs group will…

Don't know why you get downvoted. I also think that states legalising drugs with a sound plan won't face retaliation. Dutch laws on consumption of weed also haven't hurt their relationship to the US.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#160

Post by dx034 »

snarfy wrote: post #33

Northwest Cannabis Solutions, one of the largest cannabis growers in Washington State, is run by the Russian Mafia. I'm not sure about Mexican cartels, but legalization certainly hasn't stop organized crime involvement.

But then again if the Mafia runs legal businesses and pay their taxes, what's the differences to any other conglomerate? If the Russian Mafia runs restaurant chains for diversification that also doesn't necessarily make those bad (unless the money earned goes into illegal activities of course).
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