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How America Fractured in 1968

nytimes.com

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Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#21

Post by thriftwy »

xenadu02 wrote: post #16
balance_factor wrote: post #10

> It was also the year of the Tet offensive, an enormous attack by North Vietnamese forces, and of more than 16,000 American deaths in the Vietnam War, more than in any other year. Sigh...half a century later the Tet offensive is called "an enormous attack by North Vietnamese forces". How about an enormous attack by "South" Vietnamese forces, like the National Liberation Front? Who took over the American embassy in S…

The strangest thing to me was how pro-US Ho Chi Minh was and how strongly we ignored that, largely for a policy of colonialism that everyone already knew was dead. France doesn't catch near enough crap for that. We should have told France to stuff it.

That doesn't change at all. In the same pace it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times which was irrelevant but also the only mode that was remembered.

This lead to Russia only getting humiliation for its forward steps, and fast forward 20 years, new "cool war" with Putin.

The problem here is also short memory. It's Orwelesque "Oceania always had war with Eurasia", ignoring that "always" is just 40 years, but also it's all two generations can remember. In XX century, suddently human memory became too short for politics.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#22

Post by hueving »

Moto7451 wrote: post #20
IncRnd wrote: post #18

If the NYTimes' tweets had the same level of quality as their pretend tweets from the past, I'd follow them.

Do you mean the would-be push notifications? That’s the same level of quality as what they do for current events. The push notifications are in the top three reasons I pay for the Times. I can’t recommend a subscription enough.

Do you have a sample of what the current ones contain?

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#23

Post by juliendorra »

godot wrote: post #5
allenz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are graphics simulating push notifications of 1968 news every few paragraphs, captioned "Photo: Associated Press". They animate only once, so try reloading? I agree that it animates a tad too quickly, and that the animation really isn't needed.

I think figgis may be responding in a sarcastic way and trying to point out that those are not animated gifs, but are actual HTML page elements, animated with CSS. If you view on desktop and use a browser DOM inspector (like Chrome Dev Tools) you can verify that this is the case. To be honest I'm quite impressed that NYTimes went this length to create these technical widgets. Do they have software engineers or web de…

Yes, they have newsroom developers and newsroom web designers. That’s how they managed to create well integrated pieces like the 2013 Oscar trailers article [1] or the many d3js interactive dataviz. [1] http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/02/19/movies/awardss...

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#24

Post by dragonwriter »

thriftwy wrote: post #21
xenadu02 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strangest thing to me was how pro-US Ho Chi Minh was and how strongly we ignored that, largely for a policy of colonialism that everyone already knew was dead. France doesn't catch near enough crap for that. We should have told France to stuff it.

That doesn't change at all. In the same pace it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times which was irrelevant but also the only mode that was remembered. This lead to Russia only getting humiliation for its forward steps, and fast forward 20 years, new "cool war" with Putin. The problem here is also short memory. It's Orwelesque "Oceania always had war with Eurasia", ignoring…

> it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times

Russia wasn't “pro-US” in the 1990s; after the fall of the USSR, Russia, after a brief moment of inward-focussed stabilization, returned to active geopolitical competition based (in Europe, at least) largely on fanning the flames of pan-Slavism.

At best, under Yeltsin, Russia could be “pro integration into the neoliberal regime of international trade”, but that's a far cry from being pro-US.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#25

Post by thriftwy »

dragonwriter wrote: post #24
thriftwy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't change at all. In the same pace it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times which was irrelevant but also the only mode that was remembered. This lead to Russia only getting humiliation for its forward steps, and fast forward 20 years, new "cool war" with Putin. The problem here is also short memory. It's Orwelesque "Oceania always had war with Eurasia", ignoring…

> it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times Russia wasn't “pro-US” in the 1990s; after the fall of the USSR, Russia, after a brief moment of inward-focussed stabilization, returned to active geopolitical competition based (in Europe, at least) largely on fanning the flames of pan-Slavism. At best, under Yeltsin, Russia could be “pro integration into the neoliberal regime of…

That's as much affection as you can ever see from a country this size.

Russian pan-Slavism faces an obvious obstacle of Poland. It's a no go. If you're talking about Serbia, then let's face it, 90s Europe saw a fire lit in their midst that they couldn't contain for a decade. It's a thorough failure of pan-European security. On yet another attempt to extinguish flame with gasoline, even Yeltsin's Russia had to do something. Which was totally not much.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#26

Post by badpun »

I've recently read an account of that time by UC Berkeley professor and it was terrifying: young men terrorizing and using violence towards students and professors during classes, setting fire and planting bombs/dynamite on university buildings, openly calling to killing policemen on radio stations. It seemed like their program was pure anarchy and destruction.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#27

Post by coldtea »

evgen wrote: post #19
xenadu02 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strangest thing to me was how pro-US Ho Chi Minh was and how strongly we ignored that, largely for a policy of colonialism that everyone already knew was dead. France doesn't catch near enough crap for that. We should have told France to stuff it.

Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war. France had a large Communist party that was a key part of the resistance during the war and maintained a good reputation after, and large proletariat revolutions had a historical precedent in Fran…

>Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war.

And what exactly business was of them to contain anything in foreign countries?

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#28

Post by coldtea »

thriftwy wrote: post #25
dragonwriter wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was ignored how pro-US Russia in 90s was, largely for intertia from Cold War times Russia wasn't “pro-US” in the 1990s; after the fall of the USSR, Russia, after a brief moment of inward-focussed stabilization, returned to active geopolitical competition based (in Europe, at least) largely on fanning the flames of pan-Slavism. At best, under Yeltsin, Russia could be “pro integration into the neoliberal regime of…

That's as much affection as you can ever see from a country this size. Russian pan-Slavism faces an obvious obstacle of Poland. It's a no go. If you're talking about Serbia, then let's face it, 90s Europe saw a fire lit in their midst that they couldn't contain for a decade . It's a thorough failure of pan-European security. On yet another attempt to extinguish flame with gasoline, even Yeltsin's Russia had to do som…

>If you're talking about Serbia, then let's face it, 90s Europe saw a fire lit in their midst that they couldn't contain for a decade.

Couldn't extinguish? They help lit the fire.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#29

Post by ptaipale »

coldtea wrote: post #27
evgen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war. France had a large Communist party that was a key part of the resistance during the war and maintained a good reputation after, and large proletariat revolutions had a historical precedent in Fran…

> Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war. And what exactly business was of them to contain anything in foreign countries?

Whether it was their business or not, I'm thankful Americans did it, because it meant that I have been able to live my first 50 years in freedom and peace.

Without American support after World War II, also Western Europe would have been ruled by stalinist USSR.

Re: How America Fractured in 1968

#30

Post by Clubber »

coldtea wrote: post #27
evgen wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war. France had a large Communist party that was a key part of the resistance during the war and maintained a good reputation after, and large proletariat revolutions had a historical precedent in Fran…

> Should have? Yes. Could have? Probably not. No one in the US gave two shits about French Indochina, it was all about Western Europe and containing the USSR/Communists during the scramble to pick up the pieces after the war. And what exactly business was of them to contain anything in foreign countries?

The US? Because if Europe gets overrun by Soviets, like they got overrun by Germany, guess who's next? Could you imagine Soviet Europe for the last 60 years?

My uncle was drafted in Vietnam, except he didn't go to Vietnam, he went to West Germany. He spent his time waiting for the Soviets to roll their tanks over the border.

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