Live data from Hacker News

Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

techcrunch.com

161–170 of 199 posts

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#161
post #83

The number of seemingly throwaway accounts (created in the last few days) commenting on this thread is interesting too: - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=astund - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=simplemath__ - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=zhjansbnas - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=barbegal

Please don't post like this. It just leads to useless off-topic digression, all based on bad information or no information.

There's no apparent relationship between those accounts, they're not arguing the same things at all, and it's so unfair to call out specific users that way. Imagine what a message you're sending to new HNers to put them on a list like that!

It's true that we banned one of those accounts for serial abuse of the site, but that's all the more reason to be careful about how you treat the others. Guilt by association is not legit.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like that article was written on the 23rd of December. That's the same time period around which Coinbase abruptly released Bcash. That time period was a barrage of negative kerfuffles for them. Historically Coinbase/GDAX has enjoyed "inflated" BTC/USD prices because of their trustworthiness. Contrast with Bitfinex which does not serve US customers, has been hacked in the past, and is (last I heard) in debt from…

Serious question: Why does hackernews seem to be biased towards BTC over BCH? In my opinion, any honest examination of the tradeoffs between block size, orphan block rate, cost to run a non-mining node (which do not contribute to network security except indirectly via serving SPV wallets), and mining fees, will show that a 1-1.7MB block size limit is just too low for current tx volumes. The current BTC network is unu…

For now the technical aspects of cryptos are simply not all that important. We're still in the incubation phase where crptos are being used as assets instead of currencies. And at this point all that matters is public perception and security, which go hand in hand. And I think the lack of any individuals behind Bitcoin also greatly benefits it. The team behind Ethereum, for contrast, somewhat belies the notion of decentralization - even moreso after they chose to unilaterally roll back "their" ledger.

The next phase begins when 'regular' people are engaging in at least occasional direct exchanges of currency using private wallets to purchase goods/services. That would highlight the technical issues with Bitcoin, but even then I suspect Bitcoin will remain the top dog as a store of value and we'll collectively choose a runner up for rapid exchange/verification. It might not even be an independent coin itself, but a strap-on tech that helps protect against double spend, even if with a sub-100% accuracy in exchange for speed. The idea there being that it would primarily be used to mostly validate small-value transactions, with an inherently reduced double spend incentive, whereas big value transactions could go through the main coin.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#163
post #57

I suspect this is going on today. Cryptocurrency traders place a lot of faith in the exchanges. A bad actor at an exchange could manipulate a price upwards: - Create a ton of volume and potentially and upward trend (two bots trading with one another, increasing the price each time) - Generate hype around a coin - Let FOMO take over If things start to go south, disable withdrawals, deposits, or freeze the market until…

Good point and thus, trust only coins traded minimum on two exchanges and have similar curves.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s similar to 1999 dotcom run up, there will be a crash to remove all the bad actors (like the former pets.com), but it won’t kill cryptocoins just like the dotcom crash didn’t kill ecommerce.

everyone keeps saying that to the point where i start questioning it. there’s no actual proof that this is anything like the dot com bubble.

I think we are nearer to 'Fixed Odds Betting Terminals' [1] than the dot com boom. Even the most absurd excesses of the dor com boom seem quite rational in comparison the situation today. I think that it really is somewhere between straight gambling and how we imagine the tulip craze to have been.

What is actually needed to understand the situation today is a ringside seat to one of the devoted believers that has shut down their whole life and decided to gamble away their girlfriend's inheritance on fake coins. The way it takes over a person's life is a bit like crystal meth addiction combined with joining a religious cult. For these people there is no way out, their fear and greed locks them in to going all of the way. These people are not going to make any money, just lose every penny they can borrow.

With dot com there was not this low barrier to entry for essentially gambling, people did not cut themselves off from society in their little pyramid scheme cult. I find bitcoin really horrible and I am glad to have studied it close hand. I do google the coin names and it seems that everything considered a hot coin by those dedicated to the cult is blatantly a scam.

I think there is good money to be made in bitcoin for me just by documenting the fall of an individual and those around due to the obsession. Storytelling matters and I have a lot of very good material coming out of this bitcoin thing and the crazy things people say. All I have to do is keep good notes and the story should write itself very nicely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_odds_betting_terminal

I liked this comment in the original article, which is far too flippant for HN but sums up how nonsensical everything bitcoin is to me:

if this article wants to be taken seriously it needs to have a header image of some real, metal-stamped bitcoins with the logo embossed on them, all round and shiny and gleaming. Preferably it would also show two cupped hands with the bitcoins spilling out of them. Otherwise I don't even know what we're doing here.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#165
post #97
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that rose tinted glasses / nostalgia though? Do you have a bunch of examples to support your conclusion?

Err, are you asking whether the internet was useful during/prior (and despite) the dot.com bubble? The answer is, yes, it was hugely useful. Initially for information (e-mail, ftp, finger, usenet, gopher, WWW), later for commerce. It was far more useful, and far more frequently used, even years before the dot.com bubble, than cryptocurrencies are now. If you took away cryptocurrencies right now, impact on me and almo…

As a point of comparison, approx. 1MM people own Bitcoin, and I imagine that when you add in all the other cryptocurrencies it's not a whole lot larger.

In 1995, 40MM people had access to the internet.

The internet was a lot more established at the time of the Dotcom boom.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fractional reserve guarantees that the max multiplier between money in motion and money at rest is never more than 10x. If I’m supreme ruler of the world and I replace all currency with Hinkley Bucks, 100 of them in total, and I put them in the bank, they loan 90 to a guy who builds a house. The builder and all their suppliers and employees put that 90 in the bank, and the bank loans 81 to a guy starting a grocery st…

Those $900 of extra assets are balanced by $900 of extra liabilities. 0 net money is created.

sigh maybe this just isn't the venue or even the right group to try to discuss this stuff (myself included). We like to pretend like everybody else has an 'easy' job but economics is hard stuff.

I think you're mostly right, except for a couple of problems that I know of.

One, when the system goes sideways those liabilities tend not to be paid off. Bankruptcies and such. And we assume that banks are managing these risks but that doesn't always turn out to be the case - which is how the reserve rate got instituted in the first place. The government says, we don't care how much you think you've got it sorted out, we insist that you be at least this tiny bit pessimistic. My original post was sort of pointing out that if you hear "Oh we have an 8% reserve so that means only 92% of assets are being used", the money moves around so many times that the effective rate is much lower and the risk is shared. But it still does put an upper bound on how much they can be leveraged. How much money is moving around (modulo fraud and 'monetary easing'). It's not the only one, and it might not even be the most important 'resistance' built into the financial policies, but it is part of it.

The second is that we for some reason measure the health of our economy by how much money is changing hands. We don't discount liabilities changing hands at all in that, which is a bit worrying, because in the early 2000's when they weren't lending money to anybody, everything tightened up, and when they're throwing money at anybody it looks like growth but feels like danger.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with no product raising many millions just by mentioning blockchain - what more do you want?

right but the dot com bubble included Google and Ebay and a lot of other legit companies. Maybe one can argue that bitcoin and Ethereum are the analogs but only time can tell

They can't be Google. Google survived the bubble by staying a small private company that bigger companies didn't see as worth acquiring. It saved them from dying with those companies when the bubble popped.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Why does hackernews seem to be biased towards BTC over BCH? In my opinion, any honest examination of the tradeoffs between block size, orphan block rate, cost to run a non-mining node (which do not contribute to network security except indirectly via serving SPV wallets), and mining fees, will show that a 1-1.7MB block size limit is just too low for current tx volumes. The current BTC network is unu…

In your work, do you champion short term solutions?

Yes, when they are easy and they get the job done. Then you move on to the long-term solutions.

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#169
post #100
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, are you asking whether the internet was useful during/prior (and despite) the dot.com bubble? The answer is, yes, it was hugely useful. Initially for information (e-mail, ftp, finger, usenet, gopher, WWW), later for commerce. It was far more useful, and far more frequently used, even years before the dot.com bubble, than cryptocurrencies are now. If you took away cryptocurrencies right now, impact on me and almo…

> Err, are you asking whether the internet was useful during/prior (and despite) the dot.com bubble? Look, I was there from the mid 90s. I'm curious about the various viewpoints, as well as a more objective, less biased summary which attempts to ignore the nostalgia factor. > Initially for information (e-mail, ftp, finger, usenet, gopher, WWW), later for commerce. Thanks, OK, those are examples I can work with. E-mai…

NTs?

Re: Researchers find that one person likely drove Bitcoin from $150 to $1,000

#170
post #141

Right. Now to drive it from $14,000 to $100,000. To the moon! /s

Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

It's partly substantive. The 'too the moon' part was snark, but Bitcoin went from $400 to $1,000 in 2016, then from $1,000 to $14,000 in 2017, and I guess the same people driving the market who enjoyed 1,000% returns 2 years in a row will attempt to do it again this year too.

This time next year if Bitcoin hasn't imploded it will be up around $100,000.

Post reply on HN