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Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

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Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#131

Post by zappo2938 »

tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

I've heard of people who worked for the Italian mafia during the 80s and 90s who now own coal mines and other natural resources in Africa which they ship to China. They are completely legal in the eyes of the United States government. They stored their money hidden overseas and eventually invested it overseas.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#132

Post by Hasz »

neosavvy wrote: post #76
Hasz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the poster was getting at the fact that pot users dwarf meth users in quantity, for example. I think the OP got it right -- even if there was no heroin crisis in the US, the cartels would turn to some other money-making proposition. The only way to quash them is to strengthen the Mexican state, whether it be this one or a new structure.

I agree with the fact that the Mexican state needs strength to deal with this. I think I just heard on NPR this morning that more poppies are being grown in Mexico as of late due to perfect climate. I also read the farmers get nearly nothing for their crop, and obviously the high end cartels take all the profits anyways. How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment?

Let Mexico take the manufacturing the US doesn't want -- heavy industrial, low wage, quick turn assembly. You get to cut China/SE Asia, boost Mexico, and provide a competitive advantage to US business.

Imagine if Mexico had the manufacturing capability of China, plus a growing middle class, fueled by no-education-necessary manufacturing jobs.

As a business, you don't have to deal with BS joint ventures, no time zone delay, no 3mo ship journeys, etc. The US is more than capable of boosting Mexico to this state.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#133

Post by Cogito »

derekp7 wrote: post #126
coredog64 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End US crop subsidies. Small Mexican farmers can't compete with large, mechanized, subsidized operations in the US. Subsequently they aren't working paying taxes. This would also be a boon to agricultural nation's in Africa.

Would that result in a higher price for food (something everyone needs to survive), and end up hurting more people than it helps?

A thesis I've been hearing a lot about recently goes something like the following. It doesn't speak directly to subsidising food production costs, but is related to the same idea - what is wrong with cheap and plentiful food?

Here is the thesis:

----

Ongoing food and clothing donations to countries in need cause more harm than good.

While short term donations are able to help bridge emergency situations, such as after a natural disaster, ongoing donations lead to dependence.

Local producers of food and clothes are unable to compete with free, donated goods, and so switch their production to other goods or stop producing altogether.

If and when the supply of donated goods runs out, the country has already lost their ability to provide for themselves.

Thus, when supplying aid to countries in need, it is essential to promote local independence in addition to filling their immediate need, taking care to avoid the creation of a dependency.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#134

Post by ams6110 »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #79
unfunco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. Only the first time. Then the opposite is true.

Thing generally about pot and other drugs is, pot dealers generally do not traffic other drugs. One reason is the supply networks are different. With pot dealers usually deal with growers or a middle man directly. High level of trust, makes the business generally safe. Other drugs you end up tapping into a deep network filled with really shady people. High chance of being ratted on, robbed, etc. Even for those dealer…

According to my kids, the kids selling weed at high school are also selling meth, acid, xanax, DMT, shrooms, etc.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#135

Post by ams6110 »

freeflight wrote: post #70
unfunco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. Only the first time. Then the opposite is true.

On what basis are you making such a statement? Afaik many people use meth for performance enhancement and as a cheaper alternative to coke, heroin mostly comes in with people who've built up an opiate addiction through prescription opiates and a cheap escapist solution. Add in a generally very crappy living situation, where these substances are used as means of escapism from reality, and most of the habit boils down…

> Most people are still rational actors and if otherwise content and happy with their life won't start with destructive behavior on the sole basis of a substance being "super addictive".

This comports with what I've seen. Most people who've wrecked their lives with substance abuse had some underlying problem that they were trying to medicate/escape from. Depression, low self-esteem, abuse, etc.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#136

Post by BurningFrog »

tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

These cartels sound like super agile organizations that can execute any possible business plan, in any industry, legal or illegal.

In reality, of course, no such super-organizations exist. If and when the industry they have a comparative advantage in disappear, so will the organizations.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#137

Post by rootw0rm »

Fnoord wrote: post #98
freeflight wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis are you making such a statement? Afaik many people use meth for performance enhancement and as a cheaper alternative to coke, heroin mostly comes in with people who've built up an opiate addiction through prescription opiates and a cheap escapist solution. Add in a generally very crappy living situation, where these substances are used as means of escapism from reality, and most of the habit boils down…

> On what basis are you making such a statement? That's whats being thought on elementary school traditionally, haha. You don't have to look far though. Look at the usage of Khat by Somalians and Kratom by Thai. If its easily available and socially accepted, its gonna fly and will be very difficult to get rid of. I can't wrap my head around using meth. Speed alone makes my head swirl and everything go fast. Exactly w…

ah, khat. cathinones can be a beautiful thing. hired a lab in india for a custom synth ~10 years ago....quite profitable.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#138

Post by rootw0rm »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #79
unfunco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a lot harder to sell people meth, coke, heroin, etc. than it is to sell people pot. Only the first time. Then the opposite is true.

Thing generally about pot and other drugs is, pot dealers generally do not traffic other drugs. One reason is the supply networks are different. With pot dealers usually deal with growers or a middle man directly. High level of trust, makes the business generally safe. Other drugs you end up tapping into a deep network filled with really shady people. High chance of being ratted on, robbed, etc. Even for those dealer…

As someone who's had his door kicked in by the cops, tens of pounds of buds seized, kilos of powder, along with stacks of cash, money counters, and firearms....i can tell you that high volume west coast bud/concentrate dealing is the same as, and often in concert with every other illicit thing a person may deal in. you're right about the trust tho, trust is a big thing.

although yes, i did deal with my growers directly.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#139

Post by djrogers »

krrrh wrote: post #95
neosavvy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the fact that the Mexican state needs strength to deal with this. I think I just heard on NPR this morning that more poppies are being grown in Mexico as of late due to perfect climate. I also read the farmers get nearly nothing for their crop, and obviously the high end cartels take all the profits anyways. How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment?

> How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment? Not creating uncertainty by constantly threatening to pull out of NAFTA would be a good start. Helping to strengthen Mexico's economy was once a mainstream republican position seen to mutually benefit both countries. [1] [1] Excerpt on illegal immigrants from Regan/Bush 1980 primary debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

> Not creating uncertainty by constantly threatening to pull out of NAFTA would be a good start.

Not that I think such an action would be a good idea, or that threatening it is either, but what about the previous 20 years of NAFTA make you believe that it’s strengthening the Mexican state?

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#140

Post by nv-vn »

13of40 wrote: post #51
bretpiatt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The marijuana market is twice the size in US Dollars vs. the cocaine market and nearly half the volume of the overall drug trafficking. http://www.talkingdrugs.org/report-global-illegal-drug-trade...

Maybe this is a west coast perspective but I would have guessed that even before it was legal the vast majority of the marijuana market was served by domestic producers versus imports, whereas cocaine is all imported. Edit: Some googling produces estimates ranging from 30 to 70 percent imports, depending on the point the article is trying to make, so let's just call it 50% domestic nationwide.

Totally is. I live on the East Coast in an illegal state and all weed around here is either imported from legal states or grown locally. It's not hard to find grow ops or people who will ship weed here. In a world where mass quantities of drugs are so easily available on the darknet, it seems ridiculous to think the domestic MJ market is primarily run by cartels.
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