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Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

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Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#31

Post by ThomPete »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #14

Bitcoin is not remotely usable as a currency now. The fees are incredible, the confirmation times ridiculous. We need to move on to something more modern like Ethereum, Stellar Lumens, etc. immediately. Asking the current 1 mb blocksize version of Bitcoin to be a currency is like Goldman Sachs writing a report saying they want to run their website on Intel 486 processors. They mention Zimbabwe moving to it as an alte…

Western Union is up there I think. So at least for remittance it might make sense.

Anyway I agree that Bitcoin probably won't be used as a currency but more like gold. Perhaps it will be used to back some way cheaper transaction method.

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#32

Post by beaner »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #29
beaner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true that some banking systems are improving in terms of speed. I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening now that crypto has been around for 8 years, and is increasing in size. Most immediate US-based sends and receives are virtual, based on 2nd-layer systems like Venmo and PayPal, not actually moving money but updating the numbers in your account before funds land. Unfortunately for the Fed, speed a…

> I don't think it's a coincidence that it's happening now that crypto has been around for 8 years, and is increasing in size Fedwire is run directly by the Federal Reserve [1]. It traces its history to the first electronic funds transfers, which started in 1915. It started doing automated transfers in the early 1980s. Until the 1980s, it was free; after that it costs between 3 and 80¢ for member banks. Almost every…

Maybe you can elaborate on the reasons why fedwire is not more popular than, say, ACH? I suspect there is a reason that stems from its centralization.

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#33

Post by westoque »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #14

Bitcoin is not remotely usable as a currency now. The fees are incredible, the confirmation times ridiculous. We need to move on to something more modern like Ethereum, Stellar Lumens, etc. immediately. Asking the current 1 mb blocksize version of Bitcoin to be a currency is like Goldman Sachs writing a report saying they want to run their website on Intel 486 processors. They mention Zimbabwe moving to it as an alte…

Not sure “banking the unbanked” is really the goal of Bitcoin.

Think instead because of it’s scarcity, Bitcoin could be used to back currencies. Much like the gold standard before. Transaction fees in this scenario (even with it’s high transaction fees for us normies) would be considered negligible when moving large amounts of money.

In this scenario, we can even have other cryptos which are better for daily use be backed by bitcoin.

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#34

Post by mulmen »

StateChannelBro wrote: post #26
JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #14

Bitcoin is not remotely usable as a currency now. The fees are incredible, the confirmation times ridiculous. We need to move on to something more modern like Ethereum, Stellar Lumens, etc. immediately. Asking the current 1 mb blocksize version of Bitcoin to be a currency is like Goldman Sachs writing a report saying they want to run their website on Intel 486 processors. They mention Zimbabwe moving to it as an alte…

you seem to be underestimating the value of lightning networks, TEEchains, quorums, etc.

Honest question: how does any of that help with transaction fees?

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#35

Post by intrasight »

nerfhammer wrote: post #7

If you think bitcoin would make a good currency, ask yourself what happens if you have any debts, lease or mortgage denominated in bitcoin. At least hyperinflation wipes out debts, in hyperdeflation some people become millionaires and others owe millions based on whether you had positive or negative money at the start.

Exactly. Ask people in Italy or Greece whose banks made them take out mortgages in Euro.

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#36

Post by mulmen »

adamnemecek wrote: post #19
0wing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, it's actually measurably worse. As time passes, Bitcoin becomes more exploitative to new users. [1] Not to mention, the bandwidth is severely crippled and the network is basically unusable for normal transacting. Take the case study of Steam discontinuing Bitcoin payments. [2] [1] https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ [2] https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...

Bitcoin is a portal, not a coin you'd use for actual exchanging.

Then why isn't it called Bitportal?

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#37

Post by jklein11 »

adamnemecek wrote: post #19
0wing wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct, it's actually measurably worse. As time passes, Bitcoin becomes more exploitative to new users. [1] Not to mention, the bandwidth is severely crippled and the network is basically unusable for normal transacting. Take the case study of Steam discontinuing Bitcoin payments. [2] [1] https://prestonbyrne.com/2017/12/08/bitcoin_ponzi/ [2] https://steamcommunity.com/games/593110/announcements/detail...

Bitcoin is a portal, not a coin you'd use for actual exchanging.

Can you elaborate on this? In what way is it any more of a portal than government issued fiat? Is it because the infrastructure is more robust because it has been around the block longer? Is there some other technical detail that makes it exceptionally good at being a portal?

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#38

Post by tananaev »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #14

Bitcoin is not remotely usable as a currency now. The fees are incredible, the confirmation times ridiculous. We need to move on to something more modern like Ethereum, Stellar Lumens, etc. immediately. Asking the current 1 mb blocksize version of Bitcoin to be a currency is like Goldman Sachs writing a report saying they want to run their website on Intel 486 processors. They mention Zimbabwe moving to it as an alte…

On-chain scaling is not sustainable. If you want to handle as many transaction as for example Visa, you would need 1 GB blocks every 10 minutes, which would make the whole blockchain heavily centralized because regular users won't be able to host full nodes to validate payments.

About "adopting" and increasing block size. I think most developers agree that we would need to increase it at some point, but I believe core Bitcoin developers refusing to do it to accelerate real scalability solution (e.g. Lightning Network). After we have a working scaling solution we might see increase in block size to lower fees and increase throughput.

Re: Goldman Sachs Report Explores Use of Bitcoin as Currency

#40

Post by jv22222 »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #14

Bitcoin is not remotely usable as a currency now. The fees are incredible, the confirmation times ridiculous. We need to move on to something more modern like Ethereum, Stellar Lumens, etc. immediately. Asking the current 1 mb blocksize version of Bitcoin to be a currency is like Goldman Sachs writing a report saying they want to run their website on Intel 486 processors. They mention Zimbabwe moving to it as an alte…

IMHO: Plasma and Omise Go are going to solve this problem.

Check this excllent presentation by Thomas Greco and Joseph Poon for background:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOn3-OhdxnU

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