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Google Memory Loss

tbray.org

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Re: Google Memory Loss

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found if I put the keyword in double-quotes then it makes the keyword required in the search

Not even this is sufficient any more. They now have a "verbatim" search, but I think even then some terms can be ignored -- terms which are not conventional "stopwords" like the .

Maybe "verbatim" is the same as putting quotes around every word. The verbatim search seems a bit tedious to activate: search for something, press "Tools", then "All results" and pick "Verbatim" in the drop-down. Although once activated, it stays activated for subsequent searches.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found if I put the keyword in double-quotes then it makes the keyword required in the search

Not even this is sufficient any more. They now have a "verbatim" search, but I think even then some terms can be ignored -- terms which are not conventional "stopwords" like the .

Yes, verbatim is distinctly broken sometimes.

edit: It's not tedious for me on my browser, just click Verbatim on the LHS of page. (Can select that or All results)

Re: Google Memory Loss

#64
post #17

I've convinced myself that this happens in gmail / hangouts history search too. It'll very confidently tell you that here are the only six results for your search term going back to the beginning of time, but if you go and manually dig up something that you know is there from ten years ago, then all of a sudden there are seven results the next time you search for the same term. I haven't done this methodically, and I…

Yep I have the same issue.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#65
> I think Google has stopped in­dex­ing the old­er parts of the We­b. I think I can prove it. Google’s com­pe­ti­tion is do­ing bet­ter.

The first sentence is just common sense, and no particular proof is needed. The last sentence might or might not be true, but the anecdotes in this article say nothing about whether or not its true. The problem is that we don't know how Tim selected these two particular pages as examples.

If he randomly selected two 10 year old pages from the universe of all such pages, it'd at least be a valid methodology, just with far too small a sample size. But obviously he didn't do that. If the methodology instead was to search for pages on Google first, then on Bing iff there was no Google match, this tells us nothing at all. You need to run all queries on both engines, not just the ones that fail on one search engine.

Another reasonable method would be to look at aggregate referer trends; is traffic from Google to old pages decreasing faster than traffic from Bing to those pages.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#66
post #17

I've convinced myself that this happens in gmail / hangouts history search too. It'll very confidently tell you that here are the only six results for your search term going back to the beginning of time, but if you go and manually dig up something that you know is there from ten years ago, then all of a sudden there are seven results the next time you search for the same term. I haven't done this methodically, and I…

Hate to side with the big guys, but its a free service. Beggars can't be choosers. They probably dump indexes after a while for content older than x. Seems fairly reasonable actually.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#67
I have some questions about information retrieval and SLOs:

* Is there a metric of search quality which is appropriate here -- specifically, "when I search for [site:tbray.org rock roll], and receive a set of results, that set includes Tim's article"? What do we call this metric? The metric would be lower when the result set is empty (no relevant results returned) and higher when the result set contains the desired article (a relevant result was returned).

* How would you assess the quality of this particular search against a metric?

* How would you measure the overall quality of "all searches in the past hour, including the [site:tbray.org rock roll] search"? How would this one failure to find a page contribute to an overall success rate?

* Is there any possible automation that would notice whether Tim's article has started to be missing from indexes and say "hey, this represents a loss of a kind of quality"?

* Suppose the index were to (say) discard all pages created before 1999 but simultaneously improve the relevance of all queries that find more recent results. If (say) 99.99% of queries have users happy getting only post-1999 links and (say) only 0.01% are unhappy because they specifically wanted a pre-1999 result, but things get way way better for the 99.99%, was that a bad change? would any metrics show a problem?

I don't see super satisfying answers to this at e.g. https://www.quora.com/How-does-Google-measure-the-quality-of... or https://www.quora.com/How-can-search-quality-be-measured . If I'm reading right, it sounds like part of the state of the art for search quality recently involved human raters manually running sample queries… That seems kinda crazy / totally unlikely to catch certain obscure issues. But then again:

* What is the service level objective for search quality? If search is getting way better for 99.99% of users because of various optimizations, is it a problem if a particular 0.01% of queries such as Tim's old review query, which he expected to find one specific page, instead find no results at all?

And then I guess I wonder:

* According to whatever metric correctly captures Tim's review being missing as a problem, what is the current search quality of Google web searches and how has it been changing over time?

Re: Google Memory Loss

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even this is sufficient any more. They now have a "verbatim" search, but I think even then some terms can be ignored -- terms which are not conventional "stopwords" like the .

Yes, verbatim is distinctly broken sometimes. edit: It's not tedious for me on my browser, just click Verbatim on the LHS of page. (Can select that or All results )

I don't see that on the LHS. It would be nice if there's a link to it, something like https://www.google.com.au/search?verbatim=true that I could bookmark. Edit: or somehow set as the browser's default search engine.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#69
post #17

I've convinced myself that this happens in gmail / hangouts history search too. It'll very confidently tell you that here are the only six results for your search term going back to the beginning of time, but if you go and manually dig up something that you know is there from ten years ago, then all of a sudden there are seven results the next time you search for the same term. I haven't done this methodically, and I…

I've had this for Chrome history as well. There have been multiple times where I'm sure I've browsed a site with some keyword in the title and it just doesn't show up in search. I don't tend to have a clue about the time window it would be in either so I can't go looking for it, so I can't prove it.

Re: Google Memory Loss

#70

DuckDuckGo seems to have no problem returning the result, even with general terms: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tim+bray+rock+roll+animal

Google also returns the article with this query

That depends, considering search results are usually tailored to suit individuals (if logged in).
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