Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#11

Post by nonbel » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:22 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #5

If we had as of precise data on both energy & resource consumption as we have on Bitcoin mining we could remove all taxes and create a consumption/VAT tax based on how much resources and energy something used. That could go a long way in shifting costs that are socialized back in to their consumers and producers.

See my post below about energy credits. Perhaps proof of work does not achieve this like I think, but "precise data on both energy & resource consumption" should not be necessary if the value of the currency is directly linked to the abundance of energy.

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#12

Post by unmango » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:23 PM UTC

Soon bitcoins will be replaced by patacones.

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#13

Post by masmullin » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:24 PM UTC

creshal wrote: post #7

Proof of work was a mistake.

I have a hard time understanding proof of stake. I haven't found any discussions that make sense to me.

Do you have any good easy to understand descriptions of proof of stake you could recommend to a layman like me?

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#14

Post by Retric » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

AJ007 wrote: post #5

If we had as of precise data on both energy & resource consumption as we have on Bitcoin mining we could remove all taxes and create a consumption/VAT tax based on how much resources and energy something used. That could go a long way in shifting costs that are socialized back in to their consumers and producers.

Energy taxes are even more regressive than sales taxes. All it would do is increase the vast wealth subsidy.

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#15

Post by Nursie » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

clashmoore wrote: post #9

Has there been articles or research done on how much energy is used to coin, print, distribute, and utilize fiat currencies?

Yeah, it's far far less.

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#16

Post by FreeRadical » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

masmullin wrote: post #13

creshal wrote: post #7

Proof of work was a mistake.

I have a hard time understanding proof of stake. I haven't found any discussions that make sense to me. Do you have any good easy to understand descriptions of proof of stake you could recommend to a layman like me?

PoS: rather than buying mining hardware, let’s pretend we did. Now let’s randomly allocate block rewards amongst us all

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#17

Post by jeremyjh » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:32 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #14

AJ007 wrote: post #5

If we had as of precise data on both energy & resource consumption as we have on Bitcoin mining we could remove all taxes and create a consumption/VAT tax based on how much resources and energy something used. That could go a long way in shifting costs that are socialized back in to their consumers and producers.

Energy taxes are even more regressive than sales taxes. All it would do is increase the vast wealth subsidy.

Data? According to the EPA nearly 2/3rds of electricity is consumed by businesses and industry.

https://www.epa.gov/energy/electricity-customers#commercial

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#18

Post by GordonS » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

masmullin wrote: post #13

creshal wrote: post #7

Proof of work was a mistake.

I have a hard time understanding proof of stake. I haven't found any discussions that make sense to me. Do you have any good easy to understand descriptions of proof of stake you could recommend to a layman like me?

Think of bank accounts that don't allow instant access to your cash, where you gave to keep it in for a year or whatever to get your interest.

With PoS, the more coins you tie up, the more chance you have of 'winning'.

That's my understanding anyway - someone more knowledgeable, please feel free to correct me!

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#19

Post by brazzy » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

clashmoore wrote: post #9

Has there been articles or research done on how much energy is used to coin, print, distribute, and utilize fiat currencies?

I don't know, but the infrastructure for fiat currencies can achieve efficiency gains through scale.

Bitcoin cannot, on a very fundamental level: energy expenditure for mining must at all times be so high that an attack is financially unattractive. So energy usage has to increase linearly with the market cap - and completely independant of how many transactions there are.

Re: Bitcoin Miners on Track to Use More Electricity Than All of Argentina

#20

Post by DanBC » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #14

AJ007 wrote: post #5

If we had as of precise data on both energy & resource consumption as we have on Bitcoin mining we could remove all taxes and create a consumption/VAT tax based on how much resources and energy something used. That could go a long way in shifting costs that are socialized back in to their consumers and producers.

Energy taxes are even more regressive than sales taxes. All it would do is increase the vast wealth subsidy.

You can hypothecate the tax to provide energy efficient modifications to houses (insulation, LED lighting, double glazing), and to provide a small amount of free energy to poor people (subsistance levels of heating and cooking).