Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview • Hacker News Board

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#231

Post by jswizzy » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #10

czardoz wrote: post #3

This is what I was afraid of. I always thought interviews were something where you present your abilities, experience and knowledge. It should not be something you "prepare" for because then you're not showing off your skills, instead you're just regurgitating what you are trained to do. I do somewhat blame the whiteboard culture, but I guess that's the one that has given the best results so far. I've no doubt that i…

The idea of having a whole class on how to solve interview whiteboard problems (a skill that is, at least where I work, not very relevant to doing your job) is terrifying.

I actually had a job where it was relevant. Solving whiteboard problems is half the job of a nuclear field operator. I had to do boards with the captain of the ship, senior enlisted, and the reactor officer to qualify watch stations. The other half of the job is cleaning bilges till you make first class or weasel your way into an office job. It's not a fun job by any means but it paid for my College so I could do something I enjoy, Computer Science.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#232

Post by danesparza » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

virgilp wrote: post #184

BHSPitMonkey wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Google, the recruiter who schedules your interview specifically recommends reading books written about passing Google's interviews. It's a little unbelievable.

I'm pretty sure they're incentivized to find candidates that get offers - not to find "good employees" or anything of that sort.

I would think there is a Venn diagram with an overlapping 'sweet spot': Good employees are probably more likely to get offers, as are candidates that prepare for an interview.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#233

Post by danesparza » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

_xczx wrote: post #221

kulu2002 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Till today I haven't asked anyone to write actual code on whiteboard. Recently I had a chance to interview a Stanford grad who had previously worked on embedded sys in some start-up. I asked him to draw system level architecture of his product in OSI layer format like where HAL/ firmware, RTOS, insys mem, db, application, UI are placed and how they are communicating with each other ...and this guy was staring at me l…

I've never felt comfortable answering questions like those, because the designs are owned by the business. Even if I made it, I don't feel like I have the right to hand a design for my current employer to my next employer.

Ideas (and the ability to convey them) aren't owned by a business.

shakes head

Our society is waaaay to litigious if an interview is going to be overshadowed by the legal team like this.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#234

Post by sulam » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

Blazespinnaker wrote: post #122

sulam wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of screening for a software engineering gene is patently absurd. In an ideal scenario, we screen for the ability to do the work the job requires. In the normal scenario, we screen for some mix of that and the ability to apply cookie-cutter techniques to (hopefully) novel problems in the space of ~45 minutes. Some companies also ask you to do a sample practical problem either on site or on your own time. None…

To imagine that genetics do not play a role in intelligence (or any talent) is horribly naive, otherwise we could teach our dogs to program.

And it’s illegal to try and screen on anything except ability to do the job. Be very careful if you find yourself thinking in terms of software engineering interviews being a general intelligence test — you are setting yourself up for a discrimination suit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griggs_v._Duke_Power_Co.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#235

Post by danesparza » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

firstplacelast wrote: post #36

brailsafe wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, preparing for interviews is standard practice irrespective of the industry.

Sister is a travel nurse. She does not prepare for interviews and typically has several a year. Her entire interview process goes: call the agency and tell them she is looking for a new position, have one to several 30-45minute phone calls with hiring managers at the hospitals she is interested in (she actually took one once in the middle of a wine tasting - and got the job), then wait to hear back. That's what it's…

Hiring in tech is not broken. Hiring for a moving target (the tech business changes very quickly) with sub-par recruiting staff is difficult at best.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#236

Post by barry-cotter » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #192

barry-cotter wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of shared? Nursing https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck710/ Medicine https://www.ucc.ie/en/ck701/ There is not one single shared course between the two degrees. If you can find a course shared between medical and nursing students in all of Europe I'd be surprised.

Portugal, Spain and Greece as the examples I know. Nursing is taught at many universities with medical degree, first and second year students tend to share some of the lectures. Also, because of that, people with nursing degree are able to acquire a medical degree by taking the extra lectures and exams afterwards.

Could you furnish me an example from Western Europe please then? I am familiar enough with the Romance languages to read Portuguese or Spanish if there’s a university with any/substantial overlap between nursing and medicine.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#237

Post by expertentipp » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #80

czardoz wrote: post #3

This is what I was afraid of. I always thought interviews were something where you present your abilities, experience and knowledge. It should not be something you "prepare" for because then you're not showing off your skills, instead you're just regurgitating what you are trained to do. I do somewhat blame the whiteboard culture, but I guess that's the one that has given the best results so far. I've no doubt that i…

The reality is the majority of tech interviews today are filled with questions/tasks that have little or nothing to do with the actual job you are going to be assigned. In fact an average programmer doesn't actually need to know a single piece of computer science or math (almost all such stuff is abstracted by common libraries and frameworks, whatever is not can be looked up on demand) nor to memorize anything (thank…

You want too see public projects on my github profile? I'll work on my public projects during office hours, deal? There are companies which become hysteric on the mere mentioning of the words "public", "open source", and "GPL" and doing it, while already employed, will undoubtedly initiate multiple meetings with a bunch of security and legal guys staring judgmentally at you. I hope such companies are more forgiving when candidate has no public github/gitlab/bitbucket.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#238

Post by barry-cotter » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:41 PM UTC

Bukhmanizer wrote: post #150

colmvp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In design school, we had one class which involved things like developing your portfolio, learning how to present yourselves to companies, interviews with Creative Directors, etc. Given that technical interviews a common method of partially evaluating engineers/developers, it doesn't strike me as particularly odd for a practical course to exist that helps students maximize their ability to get a job. As you mentioned,…

I don't think most people have a problem with the class itself. It's more that the technical interview has gotten away from a practical method of showing what you know, and is now becoming a skill to maximize itself, whether or not it actually demonstrates if you can do the job. To take an absurd example, imagine if for some reason Law firms started requiring an Irish Stepdancing component to their hiring process. I'…

I’m Irish. WTF is Irish step dancing or Irish stepdancing?

On the correlation of irrelevant things to performance in a demanding job you know law school is at best as related to the practice of law as Bar review courses right?

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#239

Post by kulu2002 » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

_xczx wrote: post #221

kulu2002 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Till today I haven't asked anyone to write actual code on whiteboard. Recently I had a chance to interview a Stanford grad who had previously worked on embedded sys in some start-up. I asked him to draw system level architecture of his product in OSI layer format like where HAL/ firmware, RTOS, insys mem, db, application, UI are placed and how they are communicating with each other ...and this guy was staring at me l…

I've never felt comfortable answering questions like those, because the designs are owned by the business. Even if I made it, I don't feel like I have the right to hand a design for my current employer to my next employer.

I don't think drawing just a block diagram of system means giving away the trade secrets of your product. I didn't ask him to draw flow charts of algorithms and business logic. And I don't even do that. I have seen many interviews purposefully conducted by rival companies where interviewers are specifically asked by company's marketing team to drill down interviewee on particular functionality and get details of business algorithms, system performance etc. Offcourse this happens when there is cut-throat competition and few players.

Re: Stanford CS9: Problem-Solving for the CS Technical Interview

#240

Post by geebee » Mon, Jan 15, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #89

jnbiche wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, preparing for interviews is standard practice irrespective of the industry. This is simply wrong. I suppose if you've spent your whole life as a developer, it may seem like it would be done likewise other industries, but it's not the case. Typically, how you might "prepare" for interviews in other industries is...learning about your potential employer. And maybe reviewing your accomplishments. That's it. And…

I agree completely. And this is why an industry-wide respected, non-profit, credentialing mechanism increasingly makes more sense to me. There are a hundred pitfalls to implementing it and some we may never fully overcome, I'm aware, but I think they're worth grappling with to get this very technical and increasingly high-stakes line of work onto a more solid career footing with its big brothers in the engineering di…

I’ve been coming around to this as well. I don’t object to an industry wide exam based on data structures, algorithms binary operations, and design. My main objection is that the exam is taken repeatedly at each interview and scored under secretive conditions.

Actuaries aren’t expected to prepare for and pass a vector calculus and linear algebra exam every time they interview, but they are required to pass a proper exam consistently administered and graded.

This might be a big improvement in our field as well.