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Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

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Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#31

Post by aaron-lebo »

simo7 wrote: post #28

Well maybe that's one of the first "application", but it's a well know fact that Mafia's rise was fostered by the Italian unification. Southern Italy was for the most part a feudal system controlled by a traditional aristocracy. The unification prompted by one of the Northern Italian states meant the wiping out of the existing Southern Italian aristocracy. Northern Italian bourgeoisie and aristocracy became the new r…

This is related to what you are speaking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Democracy_Work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_conquest_of_southern_It...

Crazy how something that happened 8 centuries ago can still have an effect.

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#35

Post by hownottowrite »

It isn't about the mafia, but it is about Italy, Lemons, and life...

The Lemon Gardens by D.H. Lawrence from Twilight in Italy (which in it's entirety is an extremely beautiful and meditative book):

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/l/lawrence/dh/l41tw/chapter2....

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#36

Post by arethuza »

stareatgoats wrote: post #20
erikb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the best discussion points these days always downvoted? One doesn't have to agree with someone, but one should appreciate reading something one hasn't thought to be correct oneself. Also some people really, and reasonably, argue that government is nothing else but a kind of Mafia that simply one the competition for being called "government". You also know the discussions of "freedom fighter" versus "terrorist…

Since we are venturing into anecdotal territory anyway, let me report that I have yet to meet anyone who can reasonably show that government is nothing else but another form of mafia. "Freedom fighter" vs "terrorist" is however another discussion.

There are people on HN who earnestly believe that "taxation is theft" - note that I am not one of them.

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#37

Post by erikb »

celdon25 wrote: post #3

For anyone else interested in the subject, here is another paper you might like: Economic Origins of the Mafia and Patronage System in Sicily (2009) https://web.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-03160...

This sounds very reasonable to my personal observations. It's basically a type of government, that is not officially recognized as such. And yes, people are worse off under it than under most official governments. However even without mafia like governments, due to the chaos of whatever change is happening, they are already worse off even without any mafia.

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#38

Post by [deleted] »

bertil wrote: post #19
xr4ti wrote: post #4

I really don't like the authors shoehorning a linear model into this work. I perceive it as an attempt to give the article an undeserved veneer of statistical/mathematical rigor.[1] I think their hypothesis would be much better supported by typical social science approaches, such as citation and quotation of primary sources and comparative study. For example, how does the Sicilian Mafia compare with the Camorra (Napl…

It’s less a way to come off as “sciencey” and more a way to get your ideas accepted at this point. The people I know in the list of thanks would wholeheartedly agree with your the regression is forced but it gets neo-classic economists (when I was studying the vast majority and presumably still holding the reins of key publications) to not dismiss you as “psychologists”. I’m not sure if the right approach is to use b…

[deleted]

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#39

Post by erikb »

hutzlibu wrote: post #27
erikb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the best discussion points these days always downvoted? One doesn't have to agree with someone, but one should appreciate reading something one hasn't thought to be correct oneself. Also some people really, and reasonably, argue that government is nothing else but a kind of Mafia that simply one the competition for being called "government". You also know the discussions of "freedom fighter" versus "terrorist…

"Herschel I. Grossman (1995) and Stergios Skaperdas (2001) both consider mafia as an alternative enforcer of property rights. Using a model with two actors (a self-governing community and mafia) and potential robbers, Skaperdas (2001) shows that in the absence of an enforcer of property rights, mafia can represent a sort of second best solution" I do agree, that mafia act as a government. But there is still quite a d…

Absolutely agree. Mafia is not a democratic type of government. And even most despotic governments are probably better than the average mafia, for the people they rule. Reason being that you can't rule a big, stable country if you are too tyrannic. Other government-types will compete with you, and even foreign governments will try to take your land and people.

Re: Origins of the Sicilian Mafia: The Market for Lemons

#40

Post by aduric »

raides wrote: post #6

I am confused. Wasn't this part of the statement in the Godfather with what happens at a fruit stand on the street?

There is a well-known association between the Godfather movies and oranges. For example, Don Vito has an orange slice in his mouth when he dies in the garden. And yes, the fruit stand scene. There are many more examples.

I'm not too familiar with Mario Puzo's novel and use of oranges but it would be fascinating if there was somehow an innate link between the use of oranges in the movies and the origins of the mafia (what this paper is claiming).

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