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Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

oceana.org

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Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#131

Post by toomanybeersies »

belorn wrote: post #62
DrScump wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eat wild caught fish But how does the consumer know the true origin of a product? "Wild-caught" claims are only as reliable as the least honest entity in the supply chain.

Anything written on the product is liable to supply chain fraud. How do a customer know that the virgin olive oil is not mixed with lard? No food is safe from product fraud. Has fish a higher risk compared to other products? To my knowledge the food product with highest fraud rate is oil. After that things like honey, and further down we have beef. I have never heard of report in regard to fish, but feel free to poin…

This is why I only by olive oil from Australia or New Zealand. It's local to me, and organised crime has less of a hand in it as far as I'm aware.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#132

Post by bitcoinusername »

brailsafe wrote: post #106
swombat wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’d rather eat meat all day, then you’re probably saying this problem is not important enough to you. Which is totally fine, it’s your choice. I just want you to realise you have a choice. Also, vegetarian food can be really delicious. Go to a good vegetarian restaurant some day and order something that sounds tasty - it probably will be and you may not miss the meat as much as you think!

Really how well does that scale though? At a minimum, being able to eat a vegetarian diet—depending on geography—is a luxury. Eating at a vegetarian restaurant in place of meat in general is completely out of the question for most. Granted, if it's a choice to eat meat 3 times a day, than you certainly could be in a position to eat at a vegetarian restaurant 3 times a day.

How is eating a vegetarian diet a luxury?

During poverty in Yugoslavia my family and I subsisted on a diet of beans and rice. Complete protein in that combo, enough fiber and calories, we didn't die despite eating that for years.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#133

Post by brailsafe »

bitcoinusername wrote: post #132
brailsafe wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really how well does that scale though? At a minimum, being able to eat a vegetarian diet—depending on geography—is a luxury. Eating at a vegetarian restaurant in place of meat in general is completely out of the question for most. Granted, if it's a choice to eat meat 3 times a day, than you certainly could be in a position to eat at a vegetarian restaurant 3 times a day.

How is eating a vegetarian diet a luxury? During poverty in Yugoslavia my family and I subsisted on a diet of beans and rice. Complete protein in that combo, enough fiber and calories, we didn't die despite eating that for years.

You make a good point, but that is encompassed in my "depending on geography" bit.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#134

Post by bitcoinusername »

brailsafe wrote: post #133
bitcoinusername wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is eating a vegetarian diet a luxury? During poverty in Yugoslavia my family and I subsisted on a diet of beans and rice. Complete protein in that combo, enough fiber and calories, we didn't die despite eating that for years.

You make a good point, but that is encompassed in my "depending on geography" bit.

Where exactly is it a luxury? In India? In Africa?

I'm pretty sure ex-Yugoslavia area has a very good geography, if not better than most countries. You can grow soy there, just like in the USA, you can grow corn, wheat, you can raise chickens, you can do practically anything there, olives, oranges, grapes, forest fruit etc.

What do vegetarians elsewhere eat? Is there a place on Earth where it's cheaper to grow protein by feeding protein to animals, or to just eat the protein directly?

I'm not exactly sure where in the world is rice and beans more expensive than meat? If so, then it's heavily subsidized and is not real free market behavior.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#135

Post by MandieD »

swombat wrote: post #96
greglindahl wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I got his point. Of the people who ski, some would be happy to substitute another winter sport if skiing became less desirable (more expensive or less fashionable). Some would substitute non-winter sports (e.g. go to the California coast instead of Tahoe.) That's the 'substitute goods' that I mentioned. If you really love skiing, you're still a part of that economic theory, you're just the inelastic part. You mig…

To embrace the skiing analogy, I’m Swiss and I love skiing. I’m about to go on a ski trip next week. If I believed that going on occasional ski trips does anywhere near the harm that meat consumption does I would indeed give up skiing. For similar reasons, I’m not interested in going lion hunting for my holidays. It’s harmful. There are other alternatives. So use the alternatives!

Extending the analogy: I live in northern Bavaria. I've switched most of my skiing away from weekend drives to Austria to daytrips on the train to places in southern Bavaria. I love skiing in the high Alps, but for what I'm doing, the "foothills" still provide a lot of fun, and it's reduced the marginal cost of a ski day from over 150 EUR to 70 EUR. I still plan to take one long weekend, driving to a less-accessible part of Austria, as well as some train-transported weekends, but the cheap daytrips have compelled me to change what I think is necessary for a day on the slopes.

Deutsche Bahn helped kick this off by offering some really great combo deals that enticed me to try a different style of ski travel, so how could that be done with food?

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#136

Post by _0w8t »

The article does not mention that Chile received a lot of investment from Norwegian fish farm industry. After strict regulation and enforcement in Norway started to affect profits the industry looked for other countries where local laws are not that strict or can be ignored.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#137

Post by brailsafe »

bitcoinusername wrote: post #134
brailsafe wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point, but that is encompassed in my "depending on geography" bit.

Where exactly is it a luxury? In India? In Africa? I'm pretty sure ex-Yugoslavia area has a very good geography, if not better than most countries. You can grow soy there, just like in the USA, you can grow corn, wheat, you can raise chickens, you can do practically anything there, olives, oranges, grapes, forest fruit etc. What do vegetarians elsewhere eat? Is there a place on Earth where it's cheaper to grow protei…

There is a lot to it, but Geography is not a hierarchical system. In this case, it seems Yugoslavia, as with much of Europe, is great for agriculture. Despite the poverty, that is a luxury. Similar subsistence strategies have been used all over the world for thousands of years (only about 12000). There are places where farming is either not feasible, less energy efficient, or where exclusively plant-based diets aren't feasible. Knowledge about how to replace every component of what you'd get from meat being a component of your diet is also a luxury. If its not already a cultural norm to rely on what has been tested to work, then you need knowledge, a luxury many people don't have. Lastly, you need the intent to drop meat from your diet. In your case this was no option and it worked out. Great. Otherwise its more or less a luxury to be able to experiment with your diet. I'm not so well versed as to know exactly where this occurs, but Papa new Guinea comes to mind, and a wealth of curiosity abounds with regard to the geography of the agricultural revolution and evolution of humans which would provide some indicators.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#138

Post by _0w8t »

barrkel wrote: post #55
Retric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works very well for moderate changes. Look into the history of Boycotts and they have actually changed quite a bit about how several industries work. Antibiotics is actually a fairly minor benefit to the meat industry, so it's a winning strategy assuming significant popular support.

Boycotting isn't individual choice, however; boycotts, when they work, usually work due to PR and reputational effects rather than market effects.

Boycotting works through the stubborn minority rule [1]. Sometimes even less than 1% of the total population can enforce their rule for the whole country. This works as long as the rest of population finds the rule does not bother them match.

[1] http://fooledbyrandomness.com/minority.pdf

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#139

Post by konschubert »

swombat wrote: post #6

Do you feel helpless to stop the problem of antibiotics use in the meat industry? You’re not! Here’s a simple easy trick you can use to reduce its impact on the world: eat less meat. You don’t need meat in 3 meals a day. Reduce it to 1 meal a day and you’ve already reduced your antibiotics impact by 2/3. Cut down to one meat meal a week and that’s a 96% reduction. You’re not powerless. Vote with your wallet and your…

Do you feel helpless looking at the burning house?

You’re not! Here’s a simple easy trick you can use to reduce how fast it's burning: Spit into it sometimes!

---

Structural problems cannot solved with individual behavior.

Structural problems can be solved when 1. individuals bond together and affect policy or 2. when a new technology emerges.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#140

Post by _0w8t »

enord wrote: post #57
jdavis703 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at how popular organic, ethical and local food has become in the last few years. You have restaurant chains based on these ideas, supermarkets like Whole Foods, and food processors like Amy’s. This is because consumers are voting with their wallet. I like to think it’s been inspired in part by documentaries like Fast Food Nation, What The Health and Supersize Me, certainly that’s how I became a more conscious co…

Yes, but farmed salmon is making a killing. How many documentaries before you quit sushi? Can you be a conscious consumer on all aspects of your consumption, can anyone?

For a longer term the usage of "killing" here can be quite literal due to potential for disaster with antibiotics. In shorter terms I can clearly see how conscious consumption affects local shelves in supermarkets. Like 5-4 years ago in Norway I has to go a special health food store to bye vegan products. Now the cheapest supermarkets offers it and one can get a vegan burger at local Macdonalds.
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