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Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

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141–149 of 149 posts

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I think there's more similarity than just the chord progression. Part of it is the vocal timbre. Lana Del Rey's relaxed, under-enunciated consonants is similar to the vocal style in grunge when Creep came out. But she does that in almost all her songs. The chorus is completely different, and so is the instrumentation and musical style. It is a close call whether I'd call that plagiarism.

The melody of the chorus is almost identical.

Or rather, Lana‘s verse is Radiohead‘s chorus.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#142
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he is a musician creating original (even amazing, surprising and exotic) music by playing with and exploring ideas on a musical instrument. And you consider this as something less valuable than trying out "theoretical concepts".

Excellent point. Also, who cares if someone is 'a great guitar player' in the sense of mere technical virtuosity. Youtube is full of guitarist videos with GREATEST and !!!! in the titles, a million notes a minute, sound and fury signifying nothing. Your comment reminded me of Hendrix - most if not all of what he did seems to fit under 'stuff found by messing around on a guitar, moving chords/bass notes around, experi…

The last paragraph is rather hipsterish.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Publishing in the music industry means melody and lyrics. Chord sequences aren't copyrighted unless they're outstanding and exceptional, and sometimes not even then. Arrangements only matter if they're sold as sheet music. Specific recordings and samples of specific arrangements are covered by a different kind of copyright ("mechanicals"). There is nothing arbitrary about this. Good melodies are incredibly h…

> There is nothing arbitrary about this. Good melodies are incredibly hard to write, and certainly much harder than a generic chord sequence. Hmmm... that doesn't correspond with my experience at all. Melodies are quite simple, conceptually -- there are only 12 notes. Whereas for chords, I couldn't personally begin to count them, but according to the first source which popped up in Google, for four-note chords, there…

>Melodies are quite simple, conceptually -- there are only 12 notes.

Whereas for chords, I couldn't personally begin to count them, but according to the first source which popped up in Google, for four-note chords, there are 495. And they're incredibly complex, with whole arguments (and probably dissertations) on how to properly categorize and name them and how they function.

That's irrelevant though.

The "complexity" of chords is just the result of a combinatorial explosion based on a few simple rules (adding this or that note of the scale, inverting in this or that way, etc). In fact any random cluster of notes one can hit (e.g. by throwing a bowling ball at their piano's keys) is a chord and can have some sort of name. That doesn't name it particularly useful, or anything worth much studying.

The complexity of melodies on the other hand, is much more esoteric and intuitive (you know it when you hear it), and thus much more difficult to write a great one.

>(Also, why compare "good melodies" with a "generic chord sequence"? Better to compare good with good.)

Because a good melody would be cherished by everybody, whereas few care for a good chord sequence (sans melody) except music nerds.

>Example: hum "The Girl from Ipanema" to yourself without harmonies -- it's the most boring, repetitive thing ever.

That's BS, I'd say. In fact, solo performances by monophonic instruments and a cappella singing wouldn't be interesting either if that was true in general (that no harmonies = boring).

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#144

I have struggled to master guitar-based songs on my handy electric Sousaphone for years. I grab a small bass guitar and POOF: pop songs are mechanically easy on this device, it's right there under your fingers. Turns out: the instrument informs and constrains the creation.

What's an electric sousaphone?

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#145

I read this article and have to admit that I instantly sided with Radiohead because I have a natural bias toward them and against Lana. I'm just not a fan of her music. Then I listened to her track. I'm very familiar with the Radiohead track. Radiohead is just plain wrong on this one. Here's the problem - your average jury/judge/lawyer does not have the required music theory knowledge to understand how asinine Radioh…

Radiohead have outsold Lana since their last album in 2016. Their last three albums collectively have also outsold Lana’s last three albums. Before that she had her breakthrough debut that sold a ton. Overall Radiohead have outsold though because they have more volume. However their sales are still solid. Lana’s have gone down a lot with each release. At least half of Radiohead also have other work and producing they do. Money is the least of their concerns.

Though I’m sure you know that and were just angry.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#146
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent point. Also, who cares if someone is 'a great guitar player' in the sense of mere technical virtuosity. Youtube is full of guitarist videos with GREATEST and !!!! in the titles, a million notes a minute, sound and fury signifying nothing. Your comment reminded me of Hendrix - most if not all of what he did seems to fit under 'stuff found by messing around on a guitar, moving chords/bass notes around, experi…

The last paragraph is rather hipsterish.

No idea what you meant by that sorry. And now there's that other meaning..something about metrosexuals with beards or something. But either way, not clear to me at all what you could mean.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Publishing in the music industry means melody and lyrics. Chord sequences aren't copyrighted unless they're outstanding and exceptional, and sometimes not even then. Arrangements only matter if they're sold as sheet music. Specific recordings and samples of specific arrangements are covered by a different kind of copyright ("mechanicals"). There is nothing arbitrary about this. Good melodies are incredibly h…

> There is nothing arbitrary about this. Good melodies are incredibly hard to write, and certainly much harder than a generic chord sequence. Hmmm... that doesn't correspond with my experience at all. Melodies are quite simple, conceptually -- there are only 12 notes. Whereas for chords, I couldn't personally begin to count them, but according to the first source which popped up in Google, for four-note chords, there…

> Melodies are quite simple, conceptually -- there are only 12 notes.

> Whereas for chords, I couldn't personally begin to count them, but according to the first source which popped up in Google, for four-note chords, there are 495.

OK, but one note isn't a melody. How many notes are in a melody? 10? 20? Even with 10 notes, 12^10 > 495, by a long shot.

Then add timing and rhythm. No, melodies are not simpler than chords.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#148
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last paragraph is rather hipsterish.

No idea what you meant by that sorry. And now there's that other meaning..something about metrosexuals with beards or something. But either way, not clear to me at all what you could mean.

Hipsters care a lot about signaling that they prefer fringe/niche/"non-mainstream" culture. Since it is all about social signaling rather than actually enjoying a wide variety of culture, it is just as important for them to signal what culture they don't associate with, and that is decided not by the quality of the music/film/food itself, but rather based on whether other people why enjoy it are "down with it" or "mainstream".

Radiohead is a pretty popular and well-known band, so you have to pretend you don't know them, while at the same time disparaging them - not for anything related to their actual music, but for the people liking them not being hipsterish enough. This is the epitome of hipsterness.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#149
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was a lawyer I'd strum those 4 open E chords on a guitar then play all three songs. The Hollies - The Air That I Breathe, Radiohead - Creep, Lana Del Rey - Get Free Then maybe I'd make some argument about anyone who made 3 left turns and a right turn to get to the court house today owes me a royalty for using my elegant route without my permission. If you want to get to the court house tomorrow you have to figur…

Reminds me of the four chords song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

...and the Pachebel Rant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdxkVQy7QLM
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