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Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

oceana.org

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Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#81

Post by barrkel »

swombat wrote: post #31
linkmotif wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to go totally Adam Smith here, but if everyone did this, wouldn’t this just drive the cost of meat down? Making it even cheaper than it already is? Wouldn’t it make more sense to explicitly seek out “better” meat? Anyway, I agree, definitely no need to eat meat more than once a day, if not every other day etc.

Temporarily I guess it would drive the price down, and then production would adjust to meet the lowered demand. Think about it this way: if the number of meat eaters halved overnight, meat would be really cheap for a while, then a bunch of producers would go out of business and prices would rise again, and prices would stabilise again once production was half what it used to be.

You're assuming that the remaining meat eaters' consumption would remain constant. It would almost certainly increase (I know mine would increase, or rather, I'd eat more expensive cuts of meat more often, like cote de boeuf); and I'd expect substitution effects - it's hard to predict what the final outcomes would be.

Lobbying for regulation would be a more effective use of your time. Or something that converts individual action into collective action with an enforcement mechanism, like group shaming - but it's hard to get these to spread reliably.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#82

Post by barrkel »

swombat wrote: post #38
unmango wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I'd rather eat meat all day? Is there any way to stop the antibiotics use without eating like a rabbit?

If you’d rather eat meat all day, then you’re probably saying this problem is not important enough to you. Which is totally fine, it’s your choice. I just want you to realise you have a choice. Also, vegetarian food can be really delicious. Go to a good vegetarian restaurant some day and order something that sounds tasty - it probably will be and you may not miss the meat as much as you think!

I'd rather eat meat all day, but also not have it pumped with antibiotics. So, to that end, I support banning the importation of meat grown with heavy use of antibiotics, I'd support certification schemes to guarantee reduced use of antibiotics, and other effective regulations (whether self-regulating or governmental regulation) with teeth that get the job done.

Just don't think that your choice to try and reduce the price of meat will meaningfully affect the use of meat. It's just more meat for me.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#83

Post by jdavis703 »

enord wrote: post #57
jdavis703 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at how popular organic, ethical and local food has become in the last few years. You have restaurant chains based on these ideas, supermarkets like Whole Foods, and food processors like Amy’s. This is because consumers are voting with their wallet. I like to think it’s been inspired in part by documentaries like Fast Food Nation, What The Health and Supersize Me, certainly that’s how I became a more conscious co…

Yes, but farmed salmon is making a killing. How many documentaries before you quit sushi? Can you be a conscious consumer on all aspects of your consumption, can anyone?

I think we can all can be more responsible in our consumption. I’m vegetarian. I try to buy single-material products that I can recycle. I try to avoid companies that behave particularly egregiously; when Blue Bottle was acquired by Nestle I stopped patronizing them. I only purchase pasture raised eggs. I rarely drive, when I do drive it’s towards parks in rural areas. I’m not perfect, but the idea of a rational consumer optimizing for maximum consumption at the lowest price and inconvenience doesn’t hold true for many.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#84

Post by enord »

greglindahl wrote: post #76
enord wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did interpret it as a solution proposal in order to address a specific issue: The effectiveness of voluntary activism to address shared-resource problems(specifically). Of course people should do good things, but in some cases this can lead to a false sense of security ("I'm doing the Right Thing and spreading the good word. Next issue, please!") Where I live, we used to have signs inside the buses that read "Wait…

Ah. Well, then I don't think we have anything to discuss; you're either introducing a non-sequitur, or you're shitting on someone who is taking personal responsibility for their actions. And yes, a person who eats less meat eats less meat, which is another way to say that you're introducing a non-sequitur about something which is nothing like your bus example.

Hmm, I think you're giving me short shrift here. I'm not taking the piss on purpose at least, and (since you seem to hold personal responsibility dearly) I really feel it's important to raise the point of whether we are constructively addressing important issues or not.

I'm confused about the person who eats less meat non-sequitur. It feels like you're shoving me around a bit there.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#85

Post by bastawhiz »

make3 wrote: post #74
bastawhiz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A personal anecdote: I've tried cutting my meat consumption many times in the past, but I ultimately fail to keep up a low-meat diet for the following reasons: - Vegetarian food is really not that tasty in my opinion. (edit: the kind I can reasonably prepare myself) - It's very difficult to eat enough vegetarian food for me to meet my Calorie requirements (I target 3500/day). - Eating a balanced diet of vegetarian fo…

wtf 3500 calories a day. are you a professional athlete? I'm a grown man and that many calories would have me take two pounds a week (assuming stability at 2500 cal and 3500 cals extra per pound)

3500 really isn't very much when you're trying to put on weight. Soylent in the morning and three after work (400/each) is ~half that, plus protein shake after the gym (350) and full breakfast/lunch at the office (~600/each) come out to roughly 3500. Plus I'll snack on stuff, maybe have some grapes or string cheese or whatever treats people bring in.

I'm not super strict about it, so it ends up between 3000 and 3750 most days. The Soylent makes it a lot easier because you're not constantly eating. Even something as simple as using half and half instead of skim milk in your coffee adds up.

Edit: but yes, I work out quite a bit.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#86

Post by greglindahl »

enord wrote: post #84
greglindahl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah. Well, then I don't think we have anything to discuss; you're either introducing a non-sequitur, or you're shitting on someone who is taking personal responsibility for their actions. And yes, a person who eats less meat eats less meat, which is another way to say that you're introducing a non-sequitur about something which is nothing like your bus example.

Hmm, I think you're giving me short shrift here. I'm not taking the piss on purpose at least, and (since you seem to hold personal responsibility dearly) I really feel it's important to raise the point of whether we are constructively addressing important issues or not. I'm confused about the person who eats less meat non-sequitur. It feels like you're shoving me around a bit there.

The person who got short shrift is the person you initially replied to. They proposed individual virtue, and you used that as an excuse to raise a different point that you like talking about.

As for the bus thing, the people responsible for reducing deaths around buses are responsible for actually solving the problem. So I agree that they should not do ineffective things like they did in your story. Meanwhile, a person eating less meat is not responsible for making sure that overall meat consumption falls.

So there's no relationship between the two situations, and that's the non-sequitur. Sorry that I didn't get this point across effectively.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#87

Post by tr0ut »

swombat wrote: post #6

Do you feel helpless to stop the problem of antibiotics use in the meat industry? You’re not! Here’s a simple easy trick you can use to reduce its impact on the world: eat less meat. You don’t need meat in 3 meals a day. Reduce it to 1 meal a day and you’ve already reduced your antibiotics impact by 2/3. Cut down to one meat meal a week and that’s a 96% reduction. You’re not powerless. Vote with your wallet and your…

How about buy and eat locally sourced beef (and other meats) from farms that you know use the least amount of antibiotics. Have the shortest travel to your market and thus your plate. Stop eating fast-food and buying the equivalent microwave quick meal dinners. These two are the biggest offenders of factory farms.

Stop eating fish from another continent is another good choice. I live in the North East and do not consume salmon because it is not a fish that lives naturally and wild. Besides some small concentrated areas. I refuse to eat farm raised salmon. So I eat whats local flounder, mackerel, bluefish, muscles and clams. Which is also seasonal. (Sorry we're so spoiled eating Pineapples in Feb during a blizzard.)

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#88

Post by jp555 »

What is the antibiotic? How long does this compound last when deployed? If something is highly reactive (causing the death of bacteria) is it not a reasonable starting assumption that it would not last long once deployed? If it is long active, where is the evidence of this compound causing antibiotic resistance?

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#89

Post by aaronbrethorst »

belorn wrote: post #62
DrScump wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eat wild caught fish But how does the consumer know the true origin of a product? "Wild-caught" claims are only as reliable as the least honest entity in the supply chain.

Anything written on the product is liable to supply chain fraud. How do a customer know that the virgin olive oil is not mixed with lard? No food is safe from product fraud. Has fish a higher risk compared to other products? To my knowledge the food product with highest fraud rate is oil. After that things like honey, and further down we have beef. I have never heard of report in regard to fish, but feel free to poin…

That's what a government is supposed to be doing: laws, regulations, and the ability to enforce them.

Re: Chile’s salmon farms may use more antibiotics than any other meat industry

#90

Post by adventured »

swombat wrote: post #6

Do you feel helpless to stop the problem of antibiotics use in the meat industry? You’re not! Here’s a simple easy trick you can use to reduce its impact on the world: eat less meat. You don’t need meat in 3 meals a day. Reduce it to 1 meal a day and you’ve already reduced your antibiotics impact by 2/3. Cut down to one meat meal a week and that’s a 96% reduction. You’re not powerless. Vote with your wallet and your…

> Do you feel helpless to stop the problem of antibiotics use in the meat industry? You’re not!

Eating less meat isn't necessary to accomplish that at all. US consumers, as one example, are managing to force a large change upon US meat companies through pressure about health consequences, thanks to a long campaign of education by numerous groups and government agencies. Just five years ago you couldn't find antibiotic free chicken at most Walmart grocery stores, now every one of them carries such, with the major producers like Tyson all gradually switching over.

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