Live data from Hacker News

Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

cacm.acm.org

41–50 of 127 posts

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#41
A lot of people here have jaded views. Perhaps because they feel like they missed an opportunity. I believe that the Eth rocket is just about to launch. I recommend jumping aboard.

Don’t fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Just because you started walking in the wrong direction doesn’t mean you have to keep walking in the wrong direction.

Go to Coinbase.com if you reside in the US.

Get in now. Go long, I do believe.

You’ll feel better about your future when you see stories posted on HN like this if you have a coin. That alone to me is worth $1350. Reading the frequently posted crypto stories on HN with joy. Don’t buy the hype. Buy the good feeling that comes with the hype.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#43
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be legal, but critically attempting to redeem them for current USD would be a crime. So no... not the same.

It is exactly the same. First of all, I COULD sell my stale2002 dollars for real dollars, at market price, as long as I am not lying about what I am selling. The price of my sale2002 dollars would probably be ~0, but I am still not breaking the law. If you fork Bitcoin, you can't redeemed your forked coins for real Bitcoin, either. It would be a completely new and different currency. The same exact thing is the case…

[deleted]

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#44

There are four reasons I think decentralized marketplaces are inevitable: 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero. 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain type…

On the one hand, decentralization cuts out middlemen.

On the other hand, for matching, you get the greatest selection if there is ONE marketplace.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#45
post #44

There are four reasons I think decentralized marketplaces are inevitable: 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero. 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain type…

On the one hand, decentralization cuts out middlemen. On the other hand, for matching, you get the greatest selection if there is ONE marketplace.

True, but that one marketplace can live on a smart contract, that is not owned or controlled by any one entity.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#46

There are four reasons I think decentralized marketplaces are inevitable: 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero. 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain type…

> 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero.

Capitalism takes care of this. Through a competitive marketplace of marketplaces, marketplaces are forced to reduce middlemen fees to the lowest necessary. Even a block-chain middlemen-less implementation will have costs associated with decentralization (see PayPal vs Bitcoin transaction fees). Fees will never achieve zero because fees cover things like fraud, service, etc, that even decentralization can't remove.

> 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain types of marketplaces, but also from centralized marketplaces which like to pick and choose who is welcome on their platforms. Just look at Uber and Airbnb as examples. They have been banned in cities all around the world & have likewise banned certain individuals for life from ever using their marketplaces.

This is false. Unless your blockchain distributed app purely runs on the blockchain (has no oracles in the case of Ethereum, has no real world data dependency, has no point where it converts or interacts with the real world such as enforcing an exchange of goods) then the real world can enact regulations on it and shut it down. Silk road was hidden using Tor, but not something a distributed app can necessarily be better at. The one advantage of crypto coins is it allows internet transactions that share some properties of cash like non-reversability. Try to run a non-sanctioned cryptocoin in China to resist censorship. You will not be able to do it.

> 3) We can redistribute value to the people who actually contribute the most value in the network. Uber and Airbnb wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for the first 100 drivers/hosts, but what did those drivers/hosts get in exchange? Meanwhile, the early employees, investors and founders get filthy rich. New token economics give us a "better than free" business model that incentivizes people to use a platform that rewards early participants in the network.

The first few drivers were commodities. You measure their reward based on the risk they put in and frankly those early drivers may have been early, but certainly did not put in the risk. If anything, uber/lyft/airbnb probably served them well by giving them employment that they otherwise would not have had. So the capitalist system is already working for the most part and a crypto-anarchist system is not necessary to make this point any fairer.

> 4) Blockchain powered marketplaces are instantly global. This is a non-trivial advantage over anyone who attempts to create a centralized marketplace and has to wade through the local laws and banking regulations for each and every jurisdiction in the world where they wish to operate.

For trading in information yes since cross-border information flow is mostly unregulated (except for China). But for anything that requires shipping, until you can ship it through a fiber cable then no. Local laws and banking regulations have a purpose, and simply having a distributed app does not make it easier to circumvent laws.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underestimating how truly small and how early the space is still. Normal people still can't easily buy a majority of the tokens/coins/cryptocurrencies out there. Every major exchange is having trouble scaling and many have closed user registrations. Coinbase has more active users than Schwab at this point by a couple million. Binance is the fastest growing private company to hit $2Bn in valuation ever…

> I think you're underestimating how truly small and how early the space is still. What the heck are you talking about!? Kodak, the former camera company, announced at CES they were going to be selling cloud miners and have their own cryptocoin. Juice companies are announcing blockchain projects. People you run into at grocery stores are randomly bringing up bitcoin... This is as big as bitcoin gets. And when it pops…

> You can't get bigger than a juice company announcing it will be doing "something with the blockchain".

As in, you can't get higher than 1,000 using blockchain technology? What about 50,000,000 using blockchain techhnology. The point of blockchain techhnology is that any company can create their own token and have a decentralized currency, independent of banks or country legislations.

So in that respect, blockchain technology is at 1/50,000th of what it's made for. Peak? No.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#48

There are four reasons I think decentralized marketplaces are inevitable: 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero. 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain type…

I think you make some good points, but I'm not sure about the following...

1) "We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen"

In the case of Amazon, is there really rent seeking? They provide lots of benefits as the middleman - trust, support, consistency (YMMV).

2) "...centralized marketplaces which like to pick and choose who is welcome on their platforms."

Again, for me this is a feature, not a bug.

3) "...but what did those drivers/hosts get in exchange?"

Money.

"New token economics"

What are new token economics? And why are they any better than what preceded them?

The token sale doesn't reward participation, it rewards speculation

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#49
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows Bitcoin, ETH, and LTC which are all easily purchasable via Coinbase. But the general public is still lacking exposure to projects such as EOS, XLM (YC backed), REQ (YC backed), VEN, and many others. Not only are they lacking exposure but it's a complicated, risky, error-prone process to actually buy in to these projects/tokens even for those who are technically apt. That's how early these projects are.…

I agree with a lot of your comments on this post but I'm not sure if you want to include LTC in that list of examples. I can see BTC and ETH having long term value but I'm not so sure about LTC. LTC'S main claim to fame seems to be that Charlie (it's creator) was working at Coinbase and managed to get it listed there. Apart from that it appears to be a bunch of copy pasta code from other projects. If you want to see…

>Apart from that it appears to be a bunch of copy pasta code from other projects

If it takes the best of all blockhain projects, I'm all for that.

Re: Decentralized Blockchain-Based Electronic Marketplaces

#50

There are four reasons I think decentralized marketplaces are inevitable: 1) Throughout history middlemen have suffered a common fate. They get squeezed out at every opportunity. We have a chance to cut out the rent-seeking middlemen, with revolutionary new business models that allow fees to go to ~zero. 2) Blockchain technology gives us a censorship resistance. Not only from governments that like to ban certain type…

I consider network censorship to be a feature, not a bug. I want airbnb to be able to enforce that hosts are not able to deny service to black people. I want my uber driver to have insurance and a quick background check. From the perspective of somebody in the marketplace I prefer having people who break the social contract removed. Now there can be marketplaces that screw this up and perhaps there is some place for a truly censorship immune marketplace but they will be niche rather than taking over existing systems.

Development is not free. Users generally want new features over time. A distributed 2000-era netflix service where people mail each other dvds wouldn't survive in 2018. Who does development without a middleman? Part of the reason why something like uber works is because drivers do not have the technical capacity to build their own system.

The idea that cryptoassets and associated systems is going to bring about a revolution that frees people from capitalism is insane to me. Wealth is amazingly concentrated among early adopters and difficulty curves are generally weighted hard towards benefiting a few early people. Why would a distributed marketplace suddenly bring the power to the people? You still need the capital to buy a car to be a distributed-uber driver after all.

Post reply on HN