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Miners Aren’t Friends

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Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#131

Post by corford »

deadw0mb wrote: post #103
corford wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the economic argument for personal mining (I totally get it from a fun, geeky PoV if making money isn't the primary goal - it's how I got started in crypto). A GTX1070 costs about $800. At $4/day, it will take you 200 days to make back your principle (ignoring power costs, difficulty scores going up etc. - in reality it will obviously take you even longer to cover your costs). If you had put that s…

> A GTX1070 costs about $800. Where on earth are you getting that statistic? Newegg sells GTX 1070 ti's for ~500 when they are in stock. Same with bhphotovideo. Depending on what coin you mine you can net $8-10 dollars a day - then exchange it to ETH/LTC/XMR/etc. Also factoring in the growth rate of the exchanged currency the ROI on that is less than 3 months.

>Where on earth are you getting that statistic?

I just stuck "GTX1070" in Amazon and that's the rough price that came up.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#132

Post by Pxtl »

masklinn wrote: post #79
Bromskloss wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ethereum's existence hinge on Solidity? Isn't Solidity just a language that one can compile to the lower-level language actually built into Ethereum?

Solidity is the official language, part of the ethereum project, and pretty much all you get when you look for how to develop eth contracts, unless you specifically exclude mentions of solidity. Then you get Ivy (prototype & for bitcoin not eth) and Pyramid Scheme. So I'd say yeah, technically not but practically it is.

Wait, there's a scheme variant for Eth called Pyramid Scheme? That is the best programming language name ever.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#133

Post by plantsbeans »

tinco wrote: post #122
bsenftner wrote: post #87

Can any explain how the economics of mining does not promote the creation of a miner monopoly, aka a "miner Amazon". Once a single entity controls mining, Game Over: the economy is owned.

You are answering your own question. Suppose someone would invest billions in obtaining a mining rig that single handedly achieves 51% of the mining power of the network, then he effectively kills that network, and makes his investment worthless. There's a reason the valuations of Bitcoin and Ether waiver every time it seems a pool is coming close to 51% mining power, it's because everyone is scared of what happens w…

If you can keep your majority a secret, you can avoid the devaluing scenarios. The trick is to use the majority only when you need to, and to avoid detection.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#134

Post by deft »

andybak wrote: post #111
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #107

>"In this way, Proof of Work forces miners to constantly re-invest revenue." (the OP) // Classic capitalist view. It's not that miners are forced to reinvest, if all miners were satisfied with the status quo then it could continue and each miner would get the same returns - depending on the structure of the system, greater demand could even drive hash value up. But miners aren't satisfied, they want more, and new min…

> Classic capitalist view I would consider myself center-left and I think you're confusing "capitalism" with "realism". Any political system that requires altruism towards strangers is doomed. Altruism grows out of community - and requires consequences for "bad" behaviour to some degree. Tragedy of the Commons and all that.

Capitalism demands constant growth. His usage fits perfectly. Center-left means you are a capitalism supporter and makes no difference. Claiming the capitalist mode of production is "realism" is really you trying to say capitalism is natural.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#135

Post by doctoboggan »

joosters wrote: post #118
doctoboggan wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have modern cards you can still mine with one of the services that find the most profitable algorithm for you. I use NiceHash and have historically made about $2/day per GTX1070. This past month though I've been making more that double that. EDIT: Use this site to find out if your cards will be profitable considering your energy costs: https://www.nicehash.com/profitability-calculator I do want to leave one im…

How much money did you lose from the NiceHash 'hack' ? And are you still trusting them?

I lost about $20 in the hack. They claim they have a plan to pay me back, but we will see. Like I mentioned above they have paid me for my mining since the hack so I trust them enough. I would probably switch to a new service if there was one as easy to use as nicehash.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#136

Post by weavie »

Pxtl wrote: post #132
masklinn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidity is the official language, part of the ethereum project, and pretty much all you get when you look for how to develop eth contracts, unless you specifically exclude mentions of solidity. Then you get Ivy (prototype & for bitcoin not eth) and Pyramid Scheme. So I'd say yeah, technically not but practically it is.

Wait, there's a scheme variant for Eth called Pyramid Scheme? That is the best programming language name ever.

http://www.michaelburge.us/2017/11/28/write-your-next-ethere...

"Pyramid Scheme is implemented using the appropriately-named Racket."

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#137

Post by [deleted] »

corford wrote: post #131
deadw0mb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A GTX1070 costs about $800. Where on earth are you getting that statistic? Newegg sells GTX 1070 ti's for ~500 when they are in stock. Same with bhphotovideo. Depending on what coin you mine you can net $8-10 dollars a day - then exchange it to ETH/LTC/XMR/etc. Also factoring in the growth rate of the exchanged currency the ROI on that is less than 3 months.

>Where on earth are you getting that statistic? I just stuck "GTX1070" in Amazon and that's the rough price that came up.

[deleted]

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#138

Post by deadw0mb »

corford wrote: post #131
deadw0mb wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A GTX1070 costs about $800. Where on earth are you getting that statistic? Newegg sells GTX 1070 ti's for ~500 when they are in stock. Same with bhphotovideo. Depending on what coin you mine you can net $8-10 dollars a day - then exchange it to ETH/LTC/XMR/etc. Also factoring in the growth rate of the exchanged currency the ROI on that is less than 3 months.

>Where on earth are you getting that statistic? I just stuck "GTX1070" in Amazon and that's the rough price that came up.

GPUs are on backorder almost everywhere. So suppliers that still have them are all at 2-3x the price. When they are in stock they are ~$500.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#139

Post by epistasis »

spookthesunset wrote: post #130
MrBingley wrote: post #66

Can someone explain to me how on earth Ethereum is still a thing? People have lost hundreds of millions of dollars in the Ethereum ecosystem, many due to basic flaws in the "Solidity" language. For example, last November $280 million was frozen in Parity wallets because function visibility defaults to external rather than internal (see the previous HN discussion here[0]). Just for fun, I was looking through the Secur…

Who cares about the language when the very premise of the project "code is law" was proven wrong. When the DAO was "hacked" by a "thief", rather than tell people "whelp, code is law and the code executed perfect" the mob (more accurately, those at the top of the etherium pyramid) decided to change history and roll back the blockchain. Even the language designed to describe the "hack" was garbage. It wasn't a "hack",…

IMHO, "code is law" is a silly thing to aim for, and by ignoring that saying for the DAO incident proves that Ethereum is more valuable than it would be otherwise.

The "code is law" is just hype about how amazing and new and unprecedented this thing is, but it's a truly bad idea. The reversibility of bugs is a good thing. In human law, there are exceptions, and appeals, etc. Aiming for a completely mechanical system is the type of unnuanced thinking that leads me to be extremely skeptical of the entire cryptocurrency community, and in particular made me think that Ethereum was a total joke run by unserious people.

Computer tools must adapt to human nature, not the other way around. Ethereum's hype train ignored that. Such temporary hype trains can help get the train moving, but it's always important to separate the hype and marketing from the reality. Especially in everything from post 2000 in the Silicon Valley, hype and marketing are what drives success much more than product itself. We need to remember to not get high on our own supply, and not believe the bullshit that gets peddled in order to drive platform adoption.

Re: Miners Aren’t Friends

#140

Post by xg15 »

runeks wrote: post #11

> Again, let’s design a simple smart contract. This time Alice wants to play a guessing game. Alice puts 5 Ether in her contract. That ETH goes to the person that guesses closest to the number she’s thinking of. Alice calls commit with the hash of the number, so she can’t change her mind. Anyone else can call guess to submit a guess. After 2 blocks Alice calls reveal to tell everyone what the number is. This scheme i…

> And miners are incentivized to include whichever transaction pays the highest fee, which means the transaction fee of the guessing transactions published after the “reveal” transaction will converge with the prize sum.

Except the miner can simply include the transactions but add its own guess before all of them - so the miner would collect the fees and the guessing game prize.

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