Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music • Hacker News Board

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#51

Post by jimnotgym » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

billsix wrote: post #27

I have "written" guitar riffs that I later found out were from a song I hadn't heard in 5+ years. I had honestly thought that I wrote it.

More than that, I have written guitar riffs and melodies and latter found that they are the same as a song I have never heard before! I am sure this due to the very constrained nature of what is practical to reach with your fingers, the nature of the interval between strings, the tricks that hammer-ons allow you to do between certain notes and not others, the way it is easier to apply vibrato and bends to notes around half way up the neck and on the thinner 3 strings. Millions of possibilities for the competent jazz guitarist, but few of them are practical for normal people.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#52

Post by jimnotgym » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:26 PM UTC

billsix wrote: post #47

jimnotgym wrote: post #7

For anyone who doesn't play the guitar, 'Creep' and the Hollies track is is derived from come feature a rather obvious chord progression. Physically it is the result of sliding an open E chord down the neck to produce higher notes then, la piece de resistance, taking a finger off. Radiohead added a killer feature of turning the gain up on the amplifier for the chorus, genius. It's the kind of thing teenagers everywhe…

> Physically it is the result of sliding an open E chord down the neck to produce higher notes then, la piece de resistance, taking a finger off. Radiohead added a killer feature of turning the gain up on the amplifier for the chorus, genius. It's the kind of thing teenagers everywhere find in their second month of guitar mastery. E major, G# major, A major, A minor The song is in E major, yet G# major and A minor ar…

> The song is in E major, yet G# major and A minor are not chords in that scale.

Guitarists learning scales? I mean like the names of the notes rather than the shapes they make on the neck? I am suggesting that knowledge of musical theory had no part in this at all. You need to think in the terms of an indie guitarist of average ability like Thom Yorke. Open, the fret after the one with the dot on, the next fret with a dot, now take your little finger off. That is how I learnt to play Creep in the mid-ninetees! That is how (non-classical) guitarists tend to learn, and why so many people can play guitar.

> Firstly, no. All the white keys are consistently in one key, e.g. C major

The equivalent, not the same as.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#53

Post by delinka » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:27 PM UTC

cJ0th wrote: post #4

As a hobby music producer I just can't wrap my head around the logic behind copyright infringement. It's so arbitrary. It's illegal to steal a melody but sophisticated chord progressions are fine. It's illegal to copy the text of even the simplest verse but reverse engineering some complex synthesizer sounds is fine. Although I personally strive for it, I don't think originality is a point worth discussing. Music is…

"...releasing a cover without permission...is not ok."

I have to disagree with this. And it's already allowed with Compulsory Licensing. The writer of the song gets their cut as specified in the law.

As to the rest of your comment, I don't think you mean "broad protection." Broad protection is exactly what allows 'silly' lawsuits. Something that's "too similar" gets into trouble because the protection for the original is too broad.

Now, making a transformative work based on others is where I feel things get interesting and there should be lots of flexibility and leeway for the transforming artist. But how that could possibly be codified into law I have no idea...

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#54

Post by tome » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:28 PM UTC

igotsideas wrote: post #43

tejohnso wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that a worthwhile check has anything to do with Radiohead's motives? What other artists are you implying belong to this group?

They are seeking 100% of the profits for that song. They could ask her to remove the song from the album if they felt like she was biting their music and had no monetary motives.

Perhaps they think that a financial penalty will best discourage future infringers.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#55

Post by icebraining » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:29 PM UTC

d13 wrote: post #37

cturner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western tonality has some rules. Composers can operate outside of that if they want. With computers, a single composer could make up a new set of rules for every piece. You can turn a drum beat into a note by accelerating the wave form, invent your own scales. It is interesting that even electronic artists tend to operate within the constraints of the western tradition. It is probably a struggle to find an audience o…

Electronic artists are limited by the rules programmed into their software, and very few people realize how severely limiting those rules are - they make 99% of the decisions for you. The fundamentals are never questioned, but it's only by questioning those fundamentals that true can innovation happen. If you want a mainstream audience, fine, if not, throw your laptop out the window :)

Or write the software yourself...

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#56

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

igotsideas wrote: post #43

tejohnso wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that a worthwhile check has anything to do with Radiohead's motives? What other artists are you implying belong to this group?

They are seeking 100% of the profits for that song. They could ask her to remove the song from the album if they felt like she was biting their music and had no monetary motives.

[deleted]

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#57

Post by petre » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:30 PM UTC

sova wrote: post #32

jimnotgym wrote: post #7

For anyone who doesn't play the guitar, 'Creep' and the Hollies track is is derived from come feature a rather obvious chord progression. Physically it is the result of sliding an open E chord down the neck to produce higher notes then, la piece de resistance, taking a finger off. Radiohead added a killer feature of turning the gain up on the amplifier for the chorus, genius. It's the kind of thing teenagers everywhe…

Did the judge ever play guitar? I hear anyone can.

The judge doesn't need to play guitar. S/he could just summon in court an independent party that can play guitar and ask questions relevant to the case.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#58

Post by scotchmi_st » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

igotsideas wrote: post #43

tejohnso wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know that a worthwhile check has anything to do with Radiohead's motives? What other artists are you implying belong to this group?

They are seeking 100% of the profits for that song. They could ask her to remove the song from the album if they felt like she was biting their music and had no monetary motives.

Unless you’re basing that on some extra information, you seem to have not read the article.

“To set the record straight, no lawsuit has been issued and Radiohead have not said they ‘will only accept 100%’ of the publishing of ‘Get Free.’ ”

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#59

Post by bfsg » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

There is no such thing as creating an original. Everyone and everything is inspired in some or many ways. You consciously or unconsciously select your source(s) of inspiration. The guitarist of Radiohead is not playing some never played before stuff, it's the basic guitar thing millions of guitarists play. Everybody is copying everybody, changing only slight bits.

The whole music industry is stolen. And the worse part of this issue is that Radiohead is not making a dollar less because of Lana Del Rey, instead they just want to make some more of of her.

For some reason most people in this world want to own too many things they never should own in the first place. Intellectual property should only come into play if it really harms the 'original' authors revenue because of a straight copy.

Re: Lana Del Rey, Radiohead, and the Difficulty of Making Original Music

#60

Post by odabaxok » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 3:31 PM UTC

Everything is a remix video series is worth watching in this topic. It covers how every musician from Led Zeppelin to recent artists "remix" existing melodies. Also, how remix is done in other genres (e.g. movies):

http://www.everythingisaremix.info/watch-the-series/