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Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

economist.com

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Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#101

Post by manigandham »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #95
noobermin wrote: post #90

Something I think that needs to be discussed more is the fact that loneliness in society is actually starting to become a real social issue. People who are lonely are seemingly told by society that their loneliness is internal and must ultimately be their fault...but given the fact that studies like the above show that it is becoming much more prevalent in society seems to suggest there might be societal/structural c…

I wonder how much of it is the rise of the exurbs, where you live by many people, but never talk to them and there is very little community to speak of.

It's even worse in dense cities where you may share a building with thousands but not know any of them. It seems the more crowded a location is, the more isolated the people within become.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#102

Post by BjoernKW »

coldtea wrote: post #94
BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

Assuming such "taboos" pointless though (or the very name taboos placed upon them) is an act of faith, not some hard fact. Historically people have experimented with various modes of existence and found that some restrictions help with some things. Even if they attributed this to some religious decree, there are usually experimental results behind advocating this or that (like the taboo of incest comes from inherited…

Historically some taboos might've made sense.

However, mindlessly perpetuating instead of questioning them simply because "It's always been that way." is just cargo cult thinking.

We will never find out if these taboos are still valid in today's society if we don't question or test them.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#103

Post by coldtea »

BjoernKW wrote: post #102
coldtea wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming such "taboos" pointless though (or the very name taboos placed upon them) is an act of faith, not some hard fact. Historically people have experimented with various modes of existence and found that some restrictions help with some things. Even if they attributed this to some religious decree, there are usually experimental results behind advocating this or that (like the taboo of incest comes from inherited…

Historically some taboos might've made sense. However, mindlessly perpetuating instead of questioning them simply because "It's always been that way." is just cargo cult thinking. We will never find out if these taboos are still valid in today's society if we don't question or test them.

The problem is that the questioning them is often equally mindless (oh, it's old, should be of no use).

E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#104

Post by dsfyu404ed »

watwut wrote: post #35
BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

The more open adults are about sex topics, the later children tend to start and the more likely they are to use condoms. The earlie sex and teenage pregnancies were consequence of the taboo. Not other way round.

Teens having sex and teens getting pregnant are two different things.

There's a whole social/psychological/emotional bunch of things that often goes along with sex and it's probably better to figure that out in high-school when stakes are low and nobody around expects those relationships to last... as long as nobody gets pregnant.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#105

Post by dsfyu404ed »

gtt wrote: post #84
a_humean wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the debate in the article body. Less hedonistic meaning they are having less sex and so fewer unintended and teenage pregnancies, less drinking and drugs and so less violence and anti-social behavior, better relations with the parents and in particular their fathers, and more pursuing further education. Basically every metric of bad behavior that used to be a cause of concern for 80s and 90s teenagers is acros…

I don't think drinking less and doing less drugs makes you more depressed, stressed, sexless and lonely. I think the reverse is true with possible exception of loneliness, but you are better off without the type of company booze and drugs provide.

Booze and drugs are often social activities. If everyone's busy there's less time to go get high with your friends.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#106

Post by BjoernKW »

coldtea wrote: post #103
BjoernKW wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically some taboos might've made sense. However, mindlessly perpetuating instead of questioning them simply because "It's always been that way." is just cargo cult thinking. We will never find out if these taboos are still valid in today's society if we don't question or test them.

The problem is that the questioning them is often equally mindless (oh, it's old, should be of no use). E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence

I disagree. Questioning ideas is the foundation of enlightened thinking.

Questioning something doesn't mean doing away with it just because it's old. It means asking yourself (and others) if it still makes sense from today's point of view.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#107

Post by 5555624 »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #95
noobermin wrote: post #90

Something I think that needs to be discussed more is the fact that loneliness in society is actually starting to become a real social issue. People who are lonely are seemingly told by society that their loneliness is internal and must ultimately be their fault...but given the fact that studies like the above show that it is becoming much more prevalent in society seems to suggest there might be societal/structural c…

I wonder how much of it is the rise of the exurbs, where you live by many people, but never talk to them and there is very little community to speak of.

I think it's more of why don't you talk to them -- there are more demands on our time or different demands. I get home from work and I normally don't go back outside to socialize with anyone. I might talk to my neighbor when I am going in or out; but, that's about it.

In addition, are newer houses designed for causal chats with neighbors? I recently moved. On my street are houses that are over 100 years old and houses only a couple of years old. Most of the older ones have been well kept or renovated. What's the easiest way to tell the old ones from the new ones? All the old ones have porches big enough for at least a couple of chairs. When I was first looking at my house, I saw people hanging out on their porches and people walking by stopping and chatting or people waling across the street when they saw their neighbor out on the porch. It's a lot easier to stop and talk to someone when you see them outside, than going up and knocking on their door.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#108

Post by sideshowb »

jeandejean wrote: post #81

For once, an article that doesn't stigmatize teenagers too much, but rather speak about society changes. Usually it's all about criticizing teenagers because they do this or that badly, but when they're better behaved, adults necessarily try to explain how that's wrong... Just give the teens a break! Let them live, learn and play the way they want.

I think it's right to ask whether observed changes are healthy, so long as you don't default to saying "change is bad, mmkay".

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#109

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

noobermin wrote: post #90

Something I think that needs to be discussed more is the fact that loneliness in society is actually starting to become a real social issue. People who are lonely are seemingly told by society that their loneliness is internal and must ultimately be their fault...but given the fact that studies like the above show that it is becoming much more prevalent in society seems to suggest there might be societal/structural c…

> but given the fact that studies like the above show that it is becoming much more prevalent in society seems to suggest there might be societal/structural causes that are effecting the trend, or at least positively affecting its growth in society.

I'm not a social scientist, but if I were to guess I'd say it has to do with our cultural emphasis on objectivist thinking. We are very much told that the only way to approach life is to act in one's own self-interest. Connecting with other human beings is very dangerous to us, you see, because to love something is to give it power over you, and that's not in your self interest is it?

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#110

Post by kahnpro »

icebraining wrote: post #38
ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others? That dichotomy between the unattached bachelor and the loving monogamous spouse seems to be just another of those taboos.

Jealousy is a very real human emotion.
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