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2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

risingstars.js.org

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Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#61

Post by worble »

indexerror wrote: post #57
zachrose wrote: post #12

It’s a bit unfortunate that Elm will always be left out of lists like this. Yes it’s a different language that compiles to JavaScript, but unlike other languages that do this, Elm exists solely to excel at front-end web development. Ironically, that Redux and React equivalents are some of the “batteries included” in Elm can make it harder to pitch because at first it seems like you’d have to add that stuff in.

> Elm exists solely to excel at front-end web development. Except that it unfortunately falls short of that.

In what ways? Bearing in mind it's still in development and doesn't claim to be production ready by any means.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#62

Post by pablobaz »

mlsarecmg wrote: post #43
bfsg wrote: post #34

Hmm, this feels very misleading. What is the correlation between Github stars and real world usage? This is not statistics, it's just 1 variable.. It almost feels like Vue.js is going to take over React just because it received more Github stars? I use React already for years, never gave it a star on Github, and I think many with me.

Stars are pretty useless for what they wanted to measure. Real-world data paints a different picture http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular... Even searching Github for 'import React from 'react' and 'import Vue from 'vue' results in similar percentages. Roughly 7-8 million projects in Github on React, under a million on Vue. Despite the hype, Vue has been mostly a flat over the last 2 years wit…

From your link, in the last year alone Vue has had approximately a 5-fold increase in the number of downloads.

Describing this trend as "mostly flat with a slight upward bend." is very misleading.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#64

Post by azemetre »

mlsarecmg wrote: post #43
bfsg wrote: post #34

Hmm, this feels very misleading. What is the correlation between Github stars and real world usage? This is not statistics, it's just 1 variable.. It almost feels like Vue.js is going to take over React just because it received more Github stars? I use React already for years, never gave it a star on Github, and I think many with me.

Stars are pretty useless for what they wanted to measure. Real-world data paints a different picture http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular... Even searching Github for 'import React from 'react' and 'import Vue from 'vue' results in similar percentages. Roughly 7-8 million projects in Github on React, under a million on Vue. Despite the hype, Vue has been mostly a flat over the last 2 years wit…

Does this account for development done in Eastern Asia/China? It's my understanding that Chinese developers have heavily embraced vue over react and I don't know what limitations the great firewall has on frontend tools like npm or repositories such as github, maybe the stats are biased towards Western development.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#65

Post by mixedCase »

kevmo314 wrote: post #56
codecurve wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because a framework can't bring new language primitives, such as types?

But why does that need to be tied to the framework? It seems that Elm provides two things that work together well: new language primitives and a functional framework. Tying the success of each component to the other doesn't seem like a great choice.

The Elm experience simply cannot work on JavaScript. It demands a pure, strongly typed functional language that guides developers from any background into the right direction.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#66

Post by wehere111 »

krapp wrote: post #37
jstanley wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then do you think no language that "compiles to machine code" really creates new language primitives, either? The compiler can do compile-time checks that wouldn't be possible if it were implemented as a library instead.

> Well then do you think no language that "compiles to machine code" really creates new language primitives, either? No, because javascript isn't machine code, it's a high-level interpreted language. The metaphor of javascript as "bytecode" is just that - a metaphor. >The compiler can do compile-time checks that wouldn't be possible if it were implemented as a library instead. Fair enough, but it doesn't actually cha…

relevant username!

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#67

Post by mlsarecmg »

pablobaz wrote: post #62
mlsarecmg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stars are pretty useless for what they wanted to measure. Real-world data paints a different picture http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular... Even searching Github for 'import React from 'react' and 'import Vue from 'vue' results in similar percentages. Roughly 7-8 million projects in Github on React, under a million on Vue. Despite the hype, Vue has been mostly a flat over the last 2 years wit…

From your link, in the last year alone Vue has had approximately a 5-fold increase in the number of downloads. Describing this trend as "mostly flat with a slight upward bend." is very misleading.

See it in context. The fastest growing framework on npm right now for instance is Preact (as per official report posted by Lauri Voss last week), but Preacts userbase is so small that it could grow hundredfold with insane growth rates percentually without scratching a competitor. That also applies to Vue. React gets more users in a week than Vue in its entire lifespan.

Go 2 years back on that page and you see a clearer picture, yes it did grow, but relatively contained compared to its competitors, specifically React.

And is it any wonder to anyone? I really ask myself. Would you go back to a stryingly typed templating framework with a complex api and ever changing ruleset, reliant on dependency injection and all the other stuff we went through with Angular? I don't think anyone would. It rather looks like Vue is catching the last remaining Angular 1.x refugees, but there isn't an ever increasing supply of those.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#68

Post by mlsarecmg »

azemetre wrote: post #64
mlsarecmg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stars are pretty useless for what they wanted to measure. Real-world data paints a different picture http://www.npmtrends.com/angular-vs-react-vs-vue-vs-@angular... Even searching Github for 'import React from 'react' and 'import Vue from 'vue' results in similar percentages. Roughly 7-8 million projects in Github on React, under a million on Vue. Despite the hype, Vue has been mostly a flat over the last 2 years wit…

Does this account for development done in Eastern Asia/China? It's my understanding that Chinese developers have heavily embraced vue over react and I don't know what limitations the great firewall has on frontend tools like npm or repositories such as github, maybe the stats are biased towards Western development.

Github and Npm are both used in China all the same. I don't know about firewall restrictions, many chinese companies publish directly on Github. React is the most used in China in polls as well (stateofJS), with some of the biggest names and websites using it. If China would be excluded in these stats, that would impact Reacts outlook more for sure, any exception one could make would directly affect React in the same way.

As it stands npms numbers coincide with all the other sources you could pull: projects on github, tracked project dependencies, size of eco system, job market, etc.

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#69

Post by zachrose »

kevmo314 wrote: post #22
zachrose wrote: post #12

It’s a bit unfortunate that Elm will always be left out of lists like this. Yes it’s a different language that compiles to JavaScript, but unlike other languages that do this, Elm exists solely to excel at front-end web development. Ironically, that Redux and React equivalents are some of the “batteries included” in Elm can make it harder to pitch because at first it seems like you’d have to add that stuff in.

Reading over the Elm documentation, I respect the ideals a lot, it looks like a fantastic language, but why does it need to be a completely new language instead of a framework in js? It's not particularly convincing to my co-workers if I have to convince them to try a completely new syntax instead of just a new framework. Actually, I think this is why something like cycle.js is more tractable.

It’s as much about what Elm _doesn’t_ have.

The biggest thing here is that Elm does not allow mutation. This turns out to be great because it eliminates little pockets of state that make your app’s behavior hard to predict and that eventually cause bugs. It also seems like it would be very hard to bolt this on to JavaScript; you’d have to break existing code and then your runtime would miss out on the performance benefits of assuming everything is immutable.

Elm also removes classes, inheritance, == vs ===, and a bunch of other JS junk drawer stuff that turns out to be unnecessary when you have immutability and a thorough type system.

“Perfection is not when there’s nothing more to add, only when there’s nothing more to take away.”

Re: 2017 JavaScript Rising Stars

#70

Post by phillipcarter »

platz wrote: post #46
zachrose wrote: post #12

It’s a bit unfortunate that Elm will always be left out of lists like this. Yes it’s a different language that compiles to JavaScript, but unlike other languages that do this, Elm exists solely to excel at front-end web development. Ironically, that Redux and React equivalents are some of the “batteries included” in Elm can make it harder to pitch because at first it seems like you’d have to add that stuff in.

They included purescript (compilers), so why not elm, which has orders of magnitude more users?

Do you have anything to back up the assertion that it has orders of magnitude more users?

I'm a fan of elm, but but overall population of functional programmers is quite small, so I wouldn't be shocked of Elm, PureScript, and Reason had similar populations of developers.

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