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Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

nytimes.com

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Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#31

Post by matte_black »

hmwhy wrote: post #5

I really don't want to say this in an uncivil way but can people please stop spamming Hacker News with these articles full of cherry-picked scientific studies from New York Times or can their posts be automatically weighted less if their goal is to promote articles from NYT? It's really frustrating having to spend a couple of minutes to read seemingly interesting articles only to find out a few minutes later it's pro…

I agree 100%.

I hate these NYT articles and those from other similar publications, but the silver lining is that I spend much less time checking Hackernews and more on things I enjoy.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#32

Post by muzani »

hmwhy wrote: post #16
muzani wrote: post #10

This is sort of why me and my wife pick fights with our kids where we can. We stress them to the point of snapping, then cool them down. It feels a little like bullying, but we cut back and emphasize that we still love them. My 5 year old daughter in particular inherits the stubbornness of both her parents. She often she says something she regrets immediately (e.g "I hate you!"), cries on realizing it, but refuses to…

This is from someone on the receiving end and is probably slightly older than your kids—I think it's great that you are teaching your kids how to deal with conflicts and making them think, but I'm not sure that stressing them to the point of snapping is a good thing. My dad did that to me and he still does it occasionally even when I'm "in the right"; I think he probably means well (he claims that he does when I conf…

Haha, my eldest child is 5. We kind of stress our kids since they're young enough to communicate. They don't enjoy it in the moment, but bear no grudge.

We try to be very careful with damage control. We honestly talk it out. My daughter is good with labeling her feelings. She would say things like "Mom loves to pick on me for no reason, but I know she's just kidding," or "I was really angry with you this morning, because you glued the wallpaper without me, but I'm not angry anymore."

And when they do get angry, we talk it out, what they're pissed about, say sorry, and how to fix it.

I think it's sort of like exercise. We take care to not go past the 'injury' point, but sometimes it happens and we try to avoid it next time.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#33

Post by Jotto999 »

hmwhy wrote: post #5

I really don't want to say this in an uncivil way but can people please stop spamming Hacker News with these articles full of cherry-picked scientific studies from New York Times or can their posts be automatically weighted less if their goal is to promote articles from NYT? It's really frustrating having to spend a couple of minutes to read seemingly interesting articles only to find out a few minutes later it's pro…

I block myself from all sites that Media Bias Fact Check has on any of their lists of biased sources. It has greatly improved my experience of the internet, similar to hiding YouTube comments. I'd rather waste a few seconds clicking an unreadable link, than waste a few minutes reading something I don't want to be influenced by.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#34

Post by cornyNetHandle »

platz wrote: post #29
_dps wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we must be interpreting the meaning of Crocker Rules differently. You say the example I gave is benign — so is it fair to assume you believe that this behavior is useful in at least some cases? You're right that I have the "luxury" to do so in that situation because the outcome isn't particularly painful. And you're also right that it would be difficult to opt in to Crocker Rules when discussing something wit…

I can certainly appreciate the desire to not overreact to every little thing, and try to discuss things calmly, yes

I come from somewhere where the opposite of that is the dominant culture, so I was explaining Crocker's rules as a method of us pointing out to each other when we are not capable of operating by them, rather than when we are. I had a bad head cold and was trying to work out a diplomatic method to get them to chill out a little. It half worked, some of the time.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#35

Post by watwut »

muzani wrote: post #32
hmwhy wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is from someone on the receiving end and is probably slightly older than your kids—I think it's great that you are teaching your kids how to deal with conflicts and making them think, but I'm not sure that stressing them to the point of snapping is a good thing. My dad did that to me and he still does it occasionally even when I'm "in the right"; I think he probably means well (he claims that he does when I conf…

Haha, my eldest child is 5. We kind of stress our kids since they're young enough to communicate. They don't enjoy it in the moment, but bear no grudge. We try to be very careful with damage control. We honestly talk it out. My daughter is good with labeling her feelings. She would say things like "Mom loves to pick on me for no reason, but I know she's just kidding," or "I was really angry with you this morning, bec…

I do not pick on my kids without reason and they are able to express they are angry about wallpaper too. There are plenty on naturally occurring points of difference and topics, there is no need for me to go out of way to stress them out to the point of breaking.

I teach them that if some kids do that to them, it is their right to defend themselves or retaliate (otherwise they would end up submissive victims of bullying, have seen that when I was child multiple times). I also teach then that if someone do it to others, it is their right to defend that other person too from bullying.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#36

Post by grawprog »

enqk wrote: post #19
hmwhy wrote: post #5

I really don't want to say this in an uncivil way but can people please stop spamming Hacker News with these articles full of cherry-picked scientific studies from New York Times or can their posts be automatically weighted less if their goal is to promote articles from NYT? It's really frustrating having to spend a couple of minutes to read seemingly interesting articles only to find out a few minutes later it's pro…

Newspapers like NYT have successfully hacked hacker news into getting a lot of its attention. A really high proportion of the front page comes from newspapers, and what I've noticed these past years is that the comment threads and articles for these newspaper stories are both of really mediocre quality. Most of these stories are disguising ephemeral, unproven theories under the guise of longer term truths.

Not to mention that after reading a few you get blocked by their paywall...

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#37

Post by vowelless »

hmwhy wrote: post #5

I really don't want to say this in an uncivil way but can people please stop spamming Hacker News with these articles full of cherry-picked scientific studies from New York Times or can their posts be automatically weighted less if their goal is to promote articles from NYT? It's really frustrating having to spend a couple of minutes to read seemingly interesting articles only to find out a few minutes later it's pro…

I completely agree. Post studies directly, as opposed to mainstream media interpretations of selected studies, especially from political outlets like NYTimes.

I wish HN had less political content, although I think the community does a good job flagging political content off of the front page.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#38

Post by _dps »

tc7 wrote: post #21
cornyNetHandle wrote: post #8

I showed 'Crockers Rules', after Lee Daniel Crocker, to my mum and my sister over Christmas, as I thought it might help all of us indicate the level of acerbic comment we are currently able to process. "Declaring yourself to be operating by "Crocker's Rules" means that other people are allowed to optimize their messages for information, not for being nice to you. Crocker's Rules means that you have accepted full resp…

> Anyone is allowed to call you a moron and claim to be doing you a favor. (Which, in point of fact, they would be. One of the big problems with this culture is that everyone's afraid to tell you you're wrong, or they think they have to dance around it.) Is calling someone a moron the best (most information-optimized) way to tell someone they're wrong? I'm in favor of truth being more valued in this culture, but I do…

> Is calling someone a moron the [most information optimized] ...

Think of it not as "please be rude to me, that's optimal".

Think of it as "I'd rather have the truth delivered rudely than a polite falsehood or slience."

You may say that's a false dichotomy — surely everyone should just tell the most informative truth and be polite. But this is often just too taxing, or not even possible depending on language and social skills. This is especially true on contentious topics.

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#39

Post by [deleted] »

platz wrote: post #14
cornyNetHandle wrote: post #8

I showed 'Crockers Rules', after Lee Daniel Crocker, to my mum and my sister over Christmas, as I thought it might help all of us indicate the level of acerbic comment we are currently able to process. "Declaring yourself to be operating by "Crocker's Rules" means that other people are allowed to optimize their messages for information, not for being nice to you. Crocker's Rules means that you have accepted full resp…

How silicon valley.. maximize efficiency at the expense of all culture and social norms! No need for complex social relations, I will process information, more than ever before (because there is so much of it now!), like the great logical-positivist that I am! Moreover, I certainly do not have any political positions embedded in my norms-steamrolling worldview, because all there is, in fact, is information.

[deleted]

Re: Kids, Would You Please Start Fighting

#40

Post by TimJYoung »

spodek wrote: post #7

Sam Harris impresses me in his podcasts when he has guests he disagrees with that the disagreements can become intense, but when they reach the end, he's back to friendly and cordial. It's often hard to disagree on content without anger or other personal emotions, but his doing it inspires me to improve my skill at it.

Good example - I was also going to mention Sam Harris. Another thing he does is state his guest's position in his own words, and then ask the guest if he got the position correct. It's a good way to start a discussion and avoids the occurrence of two people arguing about a caricature of each person's position, instead of their actual position.
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