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Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

economist.com

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Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#91

Post by mantas »

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

More like living modestly now is taboo and the thing to be rebellious about.

My future kids will have very hard time trying to be rebellious in the usual, conformist way. Stupid haircut, unpleasant music, unacceptable clothing, out-of-bounds societal outlooks, skipping school and causing trouble here and there? That's not rebellious at all, that's what old people did in their days. Now if they'd try to live uptight life in abstinence of all kinds, lead by strict morals and ethics.. Fuck you, now that'd be rebellious and may even make me mad once in a while.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#92

Post by mantas »

gtt wrote: post #84
a_humean wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the debate in the article body. Less hedonistic meaning they are having less sex and so fewer unintended and teenage pregnancies, less drinking and drugs and so less violence and anti-social behavior, better relations with the parents and in particular their fathers, and more pursuing further education. Basically every metric of bad behavior that used to be a cause of concern for 80s and 90s teenagers is acros…

I don't think drinking less and doing less drugs makes you more depressed, stressed, sexless and lonely. I think the reverse is true with possible exception of loneliness, but you are better off without the type of company booze and drugs provide.

If company sans booze and drugs exist. Online gaming doesn't count as company.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#93

Post by coldtea »

spodek wrote: post #89

" Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority, they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers. " This quote is hundreds of years old, often misattributed to Socrates, but applies perennially. It describes not…

When things are often repeated across generations, they can:

a) always be true (we generally go to lower standards from the viewpoint of the previous generation, or even from an absolute viewpoint).

b) always be false

c) Sometimes be true and sometimes be false.

I'm not sure why people immediately jump to (b). Perhaps it's comforting to dismiss any worry of decline, and to always attribute it to change. Or it's not fashionable these days to even think about decline (it marks one as old and not "going with the times").

I find (c) much more plausible. After all, whether Socrates said this or not, some such decline happened after Socrates (the dissolution of the Athenian state and its eventual collapse) -- and several other times (in later Rome, etc).

And conversely, for huge periods of time people have not had much to complain regarding their children having some different lifetimes, because unlike ancient Athens or Rome or the US 50s and 60s or so, nothing much changed between generations -- a rural family in most of the world would have the exact same day in day out things to do, the same customs, etc, for centuries, with the very subtle and slow occasional imported innovation.

It's also funny those that while many would say that steady cultural decline couldn't possibly be happening, as many as all convinced for steady cultural progress -- like history is like some kind of march towards more and more enlightenment. Of course those people have never read history, or experienced how a steady and advanced country (or world, in 1939) can turn backwards in a moment's notice.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#94

Post by coldtea »

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

Assuming such "taboos" pointless though (or the very name taboos placed upon them) is an act of faith, not some hard fact.

Historically people have experimented with various modes of existence and found that some restrictions help with some things. Even if they attributed this to some religious decree, there are usually experimental results behind advocating this or that (like the taboo of incest comes from inherited diseases, and the taboo against adultery aims to reduce the infighting and pain between groups).

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#95

Post by jimktrains2 »

noobermin wrote: post #90

Something I think that needs to be discussed more is the fact that loneliness in society is actually starting to become a real social issue. People who are lonely are seemingly told by society that their loneliness is internal and must ultimately be their fault...but given the fact that studies like the above show that it is becoming much more prevalent in society seems to suggest there might be societal/structural c…

I wonder how much of it is the rise of the exurbs, where you live by many people, but never talk to them and there is very little community to speak of.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#96

Post by coldtea »

icebraining wrote: post #38
ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others? That dichotomy between the unattached bachelor and the loving monogamous spouse seems to be just another of those taboos.

>Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others?

Because more often than not that someone you've invested in is hurt by your casual sex with others.

Why would be compartmentalizing the casual sex more "rational" than not?

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#97

Post by coldtea »

lumberjack wrote: post #86
BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

Conformist in what way? Are you living in the 1950s? Our media and culture certainly does not preach this kind of behavior, but rather the opposite: if you are virgin by 20, don't drink and don't do drugs, you are a loser.

Not really. If you compared the culture today with the 60s or 70s, it's not even close.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#98

Post by coldtea »

Ritsuko_akagi wrote: post #4

>Teenagers who communicate largely online can exchange gossip, insults and nude pictures, but not bodily fluids, blows, or bottles of vodka. >But they are also lonelier and more isolated Heh. Let's see what effects they have after 10-20 years.

Depression and domesticity?

Health is not be-all end-all, especially when you're younger and can afford to be more loose with your lifestyle.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#99

Post by coldtea »

jeandejean wrote: post #80
stuaxo wrote: post #13

Wow, what a lot of boring people we are going to create.

If you're entertained by people who get drunk, smoke and have irresponsible sex, then yes.

So, 3 of the most constant ways to entertain one's self throughout the millennia...

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#100

Post by BjoernKW »

lumberjack wrote: post #86
BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

Conformist in what way? Are you living in the 1950s? Our media and culture certainly does not preach this kind of behavior, but rather the opposite: if you are virgin by 20, don't drink and don't do drugs, you are a loser.

While society in general today is far more liberal than it used to be in 1950s it has also become more conservative again in some ways since the early 2000s ('liberal' and 'conservative' used in terms of society in general rather than as political labels).

Apart from that both perceptions can be right: That society expects people to behave by certain standards yet at the same time by a certain age people are expected to somehow magically have made some experiences that contravene these very standards.

Such an environment and the cognitive dissonance involved probably doesn't exactly make it easier to make the right decisions for yourself.

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