Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated • Hacker News Board

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#31

Post by adventured » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:30 AM UTC

eecc wrote: post #19

blfr wrote: post #5

Better behaved and less hedonistic or just more passive?

We’re turning our own human ecosystems into a panopticon, no wonder newbies are scared of straying off. Anything can and will be used against you, eventually. (I’m not talking about fascist-kind repression and dissent wipeout, that’s out of our collective memory anyway and eventually only a problem for politicized individuals. No, it’s the much more concrete and pervasive peer control made possible by Facebook, Insta…

There are only two likely reactions imo.

Either the culture of the next generation of youth will have an unspoken understanding that certain shit doesn't go onto social media, and their culture will enforce that rule (people that violate that will be socially punished, exiled).

Or it'll get worse yet and young people will come up with behavior / approaches to evade social media. Perhaps including an assist from technology in doing so.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#32

Post by badminton1 » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:30 AM UTC

Could be because of many reasons.

e.g: prior generations were exposed to tetraethyllead, which is known to make people aggressive.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#33

Post by qubex » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #23

qubex wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Repudiation of this abhorrent ”hookup culture” that seems to be sweeping through our western societies is to be applauded. I’m not arguing for abstention, but reserving sex for monogamous, committed relationships is, as far as I am concerned, an unmitigated good.

The idea that there is a hookup culture sweeping through our western societies is directly contradicted by the numbers presented in the very article we are discussing here. And anyway, I reject this prudish Judeo-Christian inspired sexual ethics. Sex is good and good for you . There should be more of.

You’re most welcome to reject this ”Judeo-Christian prudishness” (or whatever you want to call it) but just keep in mind I’m an atheist, and all for rejecting dogma — including the new doctrines of consumerism that is snaking it’s way into our private sphere, making us all willing to use each other (apparently) for our short-term jollies.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#34

Post by gaius » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #7

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #2

If the downstream consequences of this: > Teenagers are also having less sex, especially of the procreative kind. In 1991, 54% of American teenagers in grades nine to 12 (ages 14-18) reported that they were sexually experienced, and 19% claimed to have had sex with at least four partners. In 2015 those proportions were 41% and 12%. America’s teenage birth rate crashed by two-thirds during the same period. Is this: >…

The birthrate in most of the West is sub-replacement. Inter-generation testosterone decreases, and cultural factors, likely play a part. Youth suicides have gone up considerably in the last decade.

Inter-generation testosterone decreases

It’s not just hyperbole: the youth of today really are soft https://uk.news.yahoo.com/generation-wimps-millennial-men-ar...

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#35

Post by watwut » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:31 AM UTC

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

The more open adults are about sex topics, the later children tend to start and the more likely they are to use condoms.

The earlie sex and teenage pregnancies were consequence of the taboo. Not other way round.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#36

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:32 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #9

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #2

If the downstream consequences of this: > Teenagers are also having less sex, especially of the procreative kind. In 1991, 54% of American teenagers in grades nine to 12 (ages 14-18) reported that they were sexually experienced, and 19% claimed to have had sex with at least four partners. In 2015 those proportions were 41% and 12%. America’s teenage birth rate crashed by two-thirds during the same period. Is this: >…

Yeah, it is much better for 15 years old to get pregnant, then to not have sex before 18. Or something.

From a biological perspective, what purpose does sexual maturity serve other than perpetuation of the species?

Therefore, it could be argued that the idea of teenage pregnancy being a problem is a cultural quirk. It could also be argued that adulthood starting at age eighteen is a cultural quirk.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#37

Post by a_humean » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:34 AM UTC

zrth wrote: post #15

Can someone explain why less hedonistic is seen as better?

That's the debate in the article body.

Less hedonistic meaning they are having less sex and so fewer unintended and teenage pregnancies, less drinking and drugs and so less violence and anti-social behavior, better relations with the parents and in particular their fathers, and more pursuing further education.

Basically every metric of bad behavior that used to be a cause of concern for 80s and 90s teenagers is across the board at record lows for the current generation of teenagers.

Downside is they are more likely to be depressed, stressed, sexless and lonely with weak connections to their age peers.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#38

Post by icebraining » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:35 AM UTC

ikeyany wrote: post #25

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others? That dichotomy between the unattached bachelor and the loving monogamous spouse seems to be just another of those taboos.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#39

Post by jack9 » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:37 AM UTC

ParamModule wrote: post #24

qubex wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Repudiation of this abhorrent ”hookup culture” that seems to be sweeping through our western societies is to be applauded. I’m not arguing for abstention, but reserving sex for monogamous, committed relationships is, as far as I am concerned, an unmitigated good.

I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics. Monogamy is rarely worth it just because there aren't a lot of people out there in the world that meet the conditions of the sex not be…

> I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics.

That's a bitter remark. I think there's a lot to be said for having a life partner by the age of 30 (there are movie tropes about this), generally from a psychological and sociological point of view. If you don't look early, you decrease your chances of having it by the time it gets really hard to find mates at 35+ Pursuing a monogamous relationship necessarily requires you to be a functioning adult, capable of engaging in a negotiated relationship. How well you tolerate and negotiate, is the primary method by which both members determine the value of the relationship. This is unappealing to people who are psychologically undeveloped, damaged (insert millennial infantilism joke here) or simply have a personality that is incompatible with such a relationship...which can often be traced to a problematic upbringing. I'm just repeating part of what you've said with a different interpretation, but the general statement was just grating.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#40

Post by watwut » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:39 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #36

watwut wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it is much better for 15 years old to get pregnant, then to not have sex before 18. Or something.

From a biological perspective, what purpose does sexual maturity serve other than perpetuation of the species? Therefore, it could be argued that the idea of teenage pregnancy being a problem is a cultural quirk. It could also be argued that adulthood starting at age eighteen is a cultural quirk.

As long as you simultaneously don't yell how those mostly-single moms are poor and their lives (and lives of their children) sux because they were irresponsible and don't deserve any help whatsoever cause they brought it on themselves. And as long as you subsequently don't claim all youth criminality on those young moms and dads.