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Rust in 2018: easier to use

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Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#51

Post by vhakulinen »

pjmlp wrote: post #41
eecc wrote: post #24

Julia writes she wouldn’t yet use Rust to write webservices. Right there, this could be the mission for 2018. http://www.arewewebyet.org Nobody with a sane mind would write C or CPP micro-services, but post-Spectre and Meltdown any reclaim in performance is tangibility valuable. Rust could be the one to swoop in and claim the position

Neither I think Rust is fit for that purpose, any GC language is a better fit in terms of productivity, unless we are speaking about tiny IoT devices with a few KBs. Also, it is not yet fit for writing GUI code. It is quite far from what is possible to achieve today in Qt/WPF/Cocoa/Android/... tooling and even the latest NLL improvements don't fix all issues regarding writing callbacks.

Writing GUI with rust is totally possible: http://gtk-rs.org/

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#52

Post by continuational »

pjmlp wrote: post #44
Karliss wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having some understanding of difference between value and reference types types (from c or c++) and reading documentation a bit might be necessary. Error messages sometimes also contain links to documentation in case you have no understanding of the topic. The most common problems I had so for was due to incorrect level of indirection. In such cases the cause is quite clear function returned/expected reference/value/…

> value and reference types types (from c or c++) Applies to other languages as well.

Many languages handle this internally; essentially all functional languages and all dynamically typed languages.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#53

Post by sho_hn »

rapsey wrote: post #49
pjmlp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither I think Rust is fit for that purpose, any GC language is a better fit in terms of productivity, unless we are speaking about tiny IoT devices with a few KBs. Also, it is not yet fit for writing GUI code. It is quite far from what is possible to achieve today in Qt/WPF/Cocoa/Android/... tooling and even the latest NLL improvements don't fix all issues regarding writing callbacks.

You're comparing a language to an OS and three GUI frameworks.

I think there's some merit to the statement nonetheless - e.g. Qt is native to C++ and its API designed around C++ language features and semantics in many ways. There has been success in writing bindings for languages that can emulate those semantics without too much pain (e.g. PyQt), but Rust is not one of them.

Inside the Rust community, there's been a lot of debate about what an idiomatic Rust API for a GUI toolkit would look like, particularly because the traditional tree-of-widget-objects design of C++ GUI toolkits appears a bit inconvenient to realize within Rust's stricter semantics.

IOW, "are we gui yet?" might depend on some sort of new written-in-Rust GUI toolkit to appear. There's 20 years of work by many hundreds of people in Qt, many of whom rallied not just around Qt specifically, but around projects using it. Getting that many people moving isn't easy. Alternatively, major progress has to be made on bindings and bridging to the semantics of other languages in Rust.

That said - of course C++ was around quite a while before being adopted by Qt.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#54

Post by hateduser2 »

z0ltan wrote: post #38
hateduser2 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can probably just ignore that right?

Why the aggro? He's just expressing his point of view.

Is it Aggro? I took his comment as a criticism of the author for being playful, and I’d rather the author not get criticism for that.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#55

Post by pygy_ »

karo_ops wrote: post #28

Each time I try to read an article by Julia, I get alienated by the chidlish style of writing (count the exclamation marks and caps). Which is a shame, because the article is otherwise fine.

The enthusiasm is part of the appeal for me.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#56

Post by z0ltan »

hateduser2 wrote: post #54
z0ltan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the aggro? He's just expressing his point of view.

Is it Aggro? I took his comment as a criticism of the author for being playful, and I’d rather the author not get criticism for that.

Now you're attacking me. Brilliant.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#57

Post by chucksmash »

nafizh wrote: post #3

Anyone has suggestions on learning rust for a python programmer who is also not strong on systems concepts?

The best thing you can do is to start! Your background sounds similar to mine. V2 of the docs are really good. I've called them my favorite piece of technical documentation somewhere on HN before.

Anyway, the other comments about reading the docs and building things are correct. I'd just point out two things in addition.

1) Don't feel like you have to go write some impressive low level application just because the language is lower level - fizzbuzz works fine too.

2) Don't worry too much about whether you're strong enough on systems concepts. It's not a class you fail if you show up unprepared for; it's (presumably) play time you're engaging in to scratch your own itch. You'll make mistakes but that's not something to be avoided, it's the only way to learn.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#58

Post by fyfy18 »

hateduser2 wrote: post #33
karo_ops wrote: post #28

Each time I try to read an article by Julia, I get alienated by the chidlish style of writing (count the exclamation marks and caps). Which is a shame, because the article is otherwise fine.

You can probably just ignore that right?

I feel the same as OP in regards to spelling mistakes. It just erks me so much that I find it really hard to continue reading.

If someone hasn’t bothered to take the time to proof-read their work, what does it say about the topic they are writing about? I don’t mind if the mistakes are because they are learning English, but I’m talking about really obvious spelling mistakes.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#59

Post by viraptor »

pjmlp wrote: post #41
eecc wrote: post #24

Julia writes she wouldn’t yet use Rust to write webservices. Right there, this could be the mission for 2018. http://www.arewewebyet.org Nobody with a sane mind would write C or CPP micro-services, but post-Spectre and Meltdown any reclaim in performance is tangibility valuable. Rust could be the one to swoop in and claim the position

Neither I think Rust is fit for that purpose, any GC language is a better fit in terms of productivity, unless we are speaking about tiny IoT devices with a few KBs. Also, it is not yet fit for writing GUI code. It is quite far from what is possible to achieve today in Qt/WPF/Cocoa/Android/... tooling and even the latest NLL improvements don't fix all issues regarding writing callbacks.

> any GC language is a better fit in terms of productivity

But that's not the only constraint. If you want to save memory, due to the environment you run on, or your workload, a non-GC runtime can be pretty awesome.

Re: Rust in 2018: easier to use

#60

Post by narimiran »

nafizh wrote: post #3

Anyone has suggestions on learning rust for a python programmer who is also not strong on systems concepts?

> learning rust for a python programmer

You might give Nim[1] a try.

Coming from Python, you might find Nim's syntax (and significant whitespace) familiar. It took me (also a Python programmer) a week or so before I was able to write small programs in Nim.

(Don't let "not yet v1.0" to turn you off)

[1] https://nim-lang.org/

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