In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
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Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#2#blackmirror
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#3The paper can be downloaded from
https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=8201061010270271...
I have only skimmed through the paper, but I am a bit skeptical about their conclusions. The authors first showed that the attacks-on-refugees time series is strongly correlated to the anti-refugee-posts time series. This part is very basic and is OK.
Then they tried to exhibit a causal relationship between the two series, and it is the trend of posts that drives the trend of attacks but not the other way around. This is where I have doubts. Apparently, the authors didn't try something basic first --- like a Granger causality test --- but applied a somewhat obscure regression procedure to establish causality.
This procedure, which they called a Bartik-type approach, was invented only in 1991. Now I'm not familiar enough with time series analysis to know the merits of this Bartik-type approach and why Granger test is not useful in this case, but from the graph in the Economist article, it seems that the trend of attacks is leading the trend of posts, so I wonder if they were deliberately omitting a Granger causality test that might refute their conclusions.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#4> New research suggests that this digital hatred is now spilling over into the real world.
I don't agree there is a distinction to be made here. The real world subsumes social media. Certainly violent crimes such as arson and assault are different, and more severe, than hateful or abusive posts or direct messages. Neither category is less real.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#5The paper can be downloaded from https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=8201061010270271... I have only skimmed through the paper, but I am a bit skeptical about their conclusions. The authors first showed that the attacks-on-refugees time series is strongly correlated to the anti-refugee-posts time series. This part is very basic and is OK. Then they tried to exhibit a causal relationship between the two series…
Just to point out that "Granger causality test" is a terrible name as is does not really test causality, it tests correlations between time-lagged series; time-lagged correlation is not causation.
It's just a popular correlation test in the field of autocorrelated time-series.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#6This comment vastly understates the effects of this law. Social Media companies are scared af to be fined by the German government, so the filters are so strong, that it targets the wrong people. A couple of comedians and satire magazines have been hit, left leaning people as well as right leaning people alike.
In general, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to decide what I can post on social media or not. There are already laws against defamation and "volksverhetzung" (sry I don't no the translation, basically it means I can't say "kill all the jews/muslims, they are filthy swines"), so keep the internet free from more regulation on speech. The internet is one of the last places where people have some sort of freedom of opinion/listening to different opinions, and our lawmakers make it more and more unfree.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#7This comment vastly understates the effects of this law. Social Media companies are scared af to be fined by the German government, so the filters are so strong, that it targets the wrong people. A couple of comedians and satire magazines have been hit, left leaning people as well as right leaning people alike. In general, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to decide what I can post on social media or…
> There are already laws against defamation and "volksverhetzung"
Exactly. There was no need for this new internet censorship law at all, for they could've just started applying existing hate speech laws.
Instead they introduced this new shady law, which essentially turns social network companies into a part of the judicial branch.
The situation now is exactly as you have described it -- the companies fear the German fines and act overzealously.
Perhaps an outsourced, overzealous judicial branch is exactly what the German government wanted? As they're free of the restraints that bind the official judicial branch.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#8This comment vastly understates the effects of this law. Social Media companies are scared af to be fined by the German government, so the filters are so strong, that it targets the wrong people. A couple of comedians and satire magazines have been hit, left leaning people as well as right leaning people alike. In general, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to decide what I can post on social media or…
It's my understanding that you can thank Facebook for that law.
Unless it hits their bottom line (or shows naked female breasts) it was nearly impossible to get a post deleted, even if it was clearly illegal.
While it's unfortunate that such a relatively crude law was implemented it's at the end a reaction to the general, ultralibertarian "we don't give a fuck, unless it really hurts" attitude coming out of Silicon Valley.
Uber is an even worse example of that attitude.
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#9This comment vastly understates the effects of this law. Social Media companies are scared af to be fined by the German government, so the filters are so strong, that it targets the wrong people. A couple of comedians and satire magazines have been hit, left leaning people as well as right leaning people alike. In general, I don't think it's a good idea for the government to decide what I can post on social media or…
> There are already laws against defamation and "volksverhetzung" Exactly. There was no need for this new internet censorship law at all, for they could've just started applying existing hate speech laws. Instead they introduced this new shady law, which essentially turns social network companies into a part of the judicial branch. The situation now is exactly as you have described it -- the companies fear the German…
How big are the fines? When companies left and right write off fines as business expenses, what makes those different?
Re: In Germany, online hate speech has real world consequences
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are already laws against defamation and "volksverhetzung" Exactly. There was no need for this new internet censorship law at all, for they could've just started applying existing hate speech laws. Instead they introduced this new shady law, which essentially turns social network companies into a part of the judicial branch. The situation now is exactly as you have described it -- the companies fear the German…
How big are the fines? When companies left and right write off fines as business expenses, what makes those different?
Up to 50 million Euros for repeated offenses.